Cheating as a strategy?

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 7.
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Have you encountered the same cheating guys in italian camo?

yes
140
73%
no
51
27%
 
Total votes: 191

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FallenGuard
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Post by FallenGuard » 29 Jun 2009, 22:46

Didn't see any incidents - well, an Orlov guy shot me again as I wanted to get up and put on the Deathrag - but he excused himself, so it's all good :D

I think this is nicely said:
Unless you don't actually see & hear your BB's hitting your foe, don't get pissed. Many times I had thought "hm, didn't I hit that guy?" but it is very possible that the BB's just landed in front of him, hit some branches or leaves on the way, or he did not simply notice if he was just diving into cover, running like hell or something. Get over it and shoot more, it ain't that serious!

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Crapgame
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Post by Crapgame » 29 Jun 2009, 22:48

Come on guys, lets not destroy the post berget feeling with talks about cheeting and hanging out a few people. and espacially with having votes about it.

As in all games there are a few that cheat, this exists in ALL fractions on berget aswell as any other game. its wrong to hang out a whole company and a nationality for the misstakes of a few.

if you had problems with players your should have contacted Marshalls or Trustees ON gamesite, not take it a few days later in the forums.
i know it might be hard to find a marshall or know who is a trustee, but call out and you might find a trustee or haul HQ beacuse HQ has the same rights as trustees (if i got it right) and they can easaly call BE crew to send out a marshall to the place of "crime"

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Hyrican
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Post by Hyrican » 29 Jun 2009, 22:53

Good said "Crapgame" >>> mean the player not the game :D
Cuz the game was really awsome.

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k-0ne
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Post by k-0ne » 29 Jun 2009, 23:10

Nice to see that some (perhaps unnecesary) sarcastic comments made for discussion after all
conger wrote:K-one ... please ... capitals letters = shouting and hardly needed here at least yet .... I know Hyrican and I think there's a simply typo here.
What Hyrican surely means to say is that as he calls himself 'hit' when actually hit by a BB that has passed through the bush he's hiding behind .... surely others should do the same.

Conger Out[/quote]
Capitals = yelling, if saturated trough the whole text, mine were for emphasis. I might use BOLD if stated necesary, I use BOLD for that purpose, as I'm lazy.

A hit is a hit, even if it came trought the bush. Has been like that in Finland since I began blaying and propably even further. The thing with bushes is that they also obstruct visibility, hits might not be hits due lack to ability to see trough foliage?
HardCoil wrote:k-one. If you are in a bush and get shot through it, how do you know which BBs hit something on the way and which ones went straight through? My guess is that you assume every one hit something and do not count it.
I have never played against anyone using that kind of logic before, and I thnk it's terrible and downright cheating.
You take me for an idiot I presume. Start behaving like a sane person and we'll talk more after, right?
Hyrican wrote:Thx conger for better explaining what i ve mean.

And THX for K-one whos explains me how his compyny has cheated, cuz all BB that hits you is a HIT.

Ah k-one i ve forget to say that, a BB fired with a almost 460fps weapon from 10 m allways goes trough the bouches and pls dont tell me that isnt true cuz i ve tried it very often...
And, here's a big FU to you :) Hope you'll undertstand my contempt for you after reading AND understanding this post. I seriously doubt that enyone in FINNISH side of SPR used that kinds of power levels, as Finnish regulations tend to frown on over 300 fps tuneups. I think you are right that that kind of power goes trough a leaf or few (even more (inb4 idiots saying leaves dont bother pellets)) but twigs and branches are a different matter.


As Roska said, I wasn't in this game, so I can't comment on chaeting in this one, but I can comment on idiotic statements made about it. If not, Moderators are more than welcome to tell me to shut the fsc up. :)
[: I N F E C T I O N :]

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Trasher-HU
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Post by Trasher-HU » 29 Jun 2009, 23:49

Hyrican wrote:Ah k-one i ve forget to say that, a BB fired with a almost 460fps weapon from 10 m allways goes trough the bouches and pls dont tell me that isnt true cuz i ve tried it very often...
Hmm, I always hear this kind of talk from inexperienced players (beginners, noobs, pick your preferred sticker) who think fps is magic solution to everything... Dude, penetrating bushes is bad a idea even with a 600fps rifle - at least 3+ yrs of bolt-action sniping taught me that. ;)

During B7, I killed an estimated 35-40 people (SRP and Nato) with my untuned, low rof, 360-370fps rifle and I can recall only one instance where I was absolutely, 100% sure the fellow on the receiving end was cheating... The majority called their hits fair and square, after I fired a *short* burst or two at them.

Maybe next time I should try hosing down bushes with 460fps instead of waiting for a clear shot? ;)
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Post by Batya » 30 Jun 2009, 00:14

У меня плохой английский, надеюсь мои друзья переведут мой пост.

Я полностью поддерживаю GOM.

Первый раз мы столкнулись с итальянцами в пятницу днем на Trevel Lounge. Нас было 20 человек и мы сидели в обороне этой точки. Когда на нас напали итальянцы (у меня есть даже фото на память с одним из них), в респауне оказались 10 наемников и всего 5 итальянцев... Тогда мы решили что это отличные бойцы и у нас была дружеская беседа. Прекрасные ребята!

Вторая встреча была утром в субботу во время атаки "Звонок будильника" в 9-15 утра. Такого количества терминаторов, отражающих атаку, я не видел никогда!!! Мы с нашим начальником разведки батальона были "убиты" и лежали накрывшись оранжевым жилетом около штаба НАТО и наблюдали всю атаку и ее отражение в течении 15 минут. И о боги!!! Отражали атаку ребята в итальянском камо и почти никто не кричал "Медик" или ХИТ. Тогда я сильно удивился и не смог поверить в такое везение наших итальянских друзей. Я имею большой опыт аэрсофта и никогда не поверю что такое возможно. Более того, перед моей "гибелью" я выстрелил
5 магазинов из моей Systema M130 и видел как люди разбегаются от этих выстрелов и отчетливо понятно что в них попали.

Третий случай произошел во время атаки НАТО на Башир-сити днем в субботу. Я лично выстрелил в одного парня в итальянском камуфляже один полный магазин с 20 метров. Причем я был сверху на скале, а он лежал внизу. Я видел и слышал как попадал по его снаряжению на спине. И знаете что он сделал, когда я перезаряжался? Он стал стрелять в ответ. Пришлось выгнать его криками в респаун. Надо признать, что он не стал спорить и ушел. Однако что было бы, если бы я не кричал так уверенно??...

Наш коллега из SRP прямо жаловался нам, что именно среди итальянских игроков терминаторов было больше всего.
Наши друзья играющие за Нато говорили тоже самое.
Было еще несколько споров с этими ребятами, но большинство мы уладили на месте, без Маршалов. Теперь я не буду о них писать Однако факты имели место быть.

Я хочу сказать что BERGET это не "САФАРИ в зоопарке" для некоторых игроков. Еще никогда не было такого единодушного мнения относительно группы игроков и это серьезный повод для обсуждения.


Однако я хочу сказать, что конечно далеко не все игроки в итальянском КАМО были уличены в нечестной игре. Это прекрасные приветливые парни. Я бы очень хотел что бы они сами провели расследование среди своих коллег и впредь не допускали подобное.
Я допускаю, что среди наших итальянских друзей было много начинающих игроков, которые еще не умеют справится с адреналином и азартом.
Помните друзья, что аэрсофт это игра на честность, а Бергет игра где многие судят по Вам о вашей стране. Надеюсь на Бергет 8,9,10 etc мы не будем обсуждать подобного.
Last edited by Batya on 30 Jun 2009, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.
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[Dragoons]Saint
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Post by [Dragoons]Saint » 30 Jun 2009, 00:17

Translation someone? :shock:
I might have given her the guns, but you gave her the ammo!

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Hyrican
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Post by Hyrican » 30 Jun 2009, 00:19

Trasher-HU wrote: Hmm, I always hear this kind of talk from inexperienced players (beginners, noobs, pick your preferred sticker) who think fps is magic solution to everything... Dude, penetrating bushes is bad a idea even with a 600fps rifle - at least 3+ yrs of bolt-action sniping taught me that. ;)
beginers are mostly cheaters you know? call ppl who couldnt call his hits, as noobs but not this ppl who has.

k maybe i m and almost the Foxtrot Company were to sensetive to the bbs, maybe we should do the same as you? shouldn´t we? I saw bbs rikochets about 75° angle hits which were reported as a hit.
Last edited by Hyrican on 30 Jun 2009, 00:31, edited 2 times in total.

circuit
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Post by circuit » 30 Jun 2009, 00:24

"Shoot until orange" is a good thumb rule as we all know all hits are not taken. Usually because players do not feel/hear the hits. So they are just accidents.

Like nobody has't shot another running player in the back and saw him NOT to take a hit. This is very commom but can't be helped. The other player just does not know he's been hit becaues of runnig ect. But if he stops and you are still shooting thet usually (95%) understand thay are hit and react like supposed to (They show orange flag).

I have heard like tens and tens of complaints in Finland and in Berget events of players who don't take their hits and when you really ask about the matter from the shooter it is like this:" I shot like 200 BB's to that guy so he shoud be hit" and when you look at the range it is like 60-100 meters. So there in no chance for the shooter to hit with these weapons we have. And you understand that the shooter has just overquessed he's weapons performance and understated the range to taget.
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Post by M.Anthopoulos » 30 Jun 2009, 00:25

[Dragoons]Saint wrote:Translation someone? :shock:
I put Batyas text to Google translate. Heres his text in English :)

I have a bad english, I hope my friends will transfer my post.

I fully support the GOM.

The first time we are faced with the Italians on Friday afternoon at Trevel Lounge. We were 20 people, and we sat in the defense of this point. When we attacked the Italians (I have even photos on the memory of one of them) in respaune were 10 mercenaries, and only 5 of Italians ... Then we decided that this is an excellent fighters, and we had a friendly talk. Excellent guys!

The second meeting was on Saturday morning during the attack, "alarm call" in the morning of 9-15. This number terminator, reflecting the attack, I have not seen ever! We have our chief intelligence battalion were killed, and covered in orange vests were lying around NATO headquarters and watched the whole attack and its reflection in 15 minutes. And the gods! Rebuff the guys in the Italian Kamo and almost no one is yelling "Medic" or HIT. Then I was surprised and could not believe such luck our Italian friends. I have a lot of experience aersofta and never believe that this is possible. Indeed, before my "death" I shot
5 stores out of my Systema M130 and see how people run from those shots and clearly understand that they got.

The third incident occurred during a NATO attack on Bashir City on Saturday afternoon. I personally shot one guy in the Italian camouflage one shop with a full 20 meters. And I was on top of the cliff, as he lay at the bottom. I have seen and heard as coming at his equipment on his back. And you know what he did, when I recharged? He began shooting in response. We had to drive them shouting in respaun. It must be admitted that he did not argue and left. However, it would be, if I had not cried so confidently ??...

Our colleague from SRP directly complained to us that it is the terminator of the Italian players were the most.
Our friends playing for Nato said the same thing.
It was still several disputes with these guys, but most of us arranged on the spot, without marshals. Now I will not write about them, however, the facts took place.

I want to say that this is not BERGET SAFARI Zoo "for some players. It has never been such a unanimous opinion on the group of players and it is a serious cause for discussion.


However, I would say that certainly not all the players in the Italian Kamo were caught in unfair play. This is a beautiful friendly guys. I would very much like what they have investigated for their colleagues and continue to carry on.
I assume that among our Italian friends were a lot of novice players who are not yet able to cope with the adrenaline and passion.
Remember friends that aersoft this game on the honesty and Berget game which many blamed on you about your country. I hope to Berget 8,9,10 etc, we will not discuss this
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Post by circuit » 30 Jun 2009, 00:28

"Shoot until orange" is a good thumb rule as we all know all hits are not taken. Usually because players do not feel/hear the hits. So the "Cheating" is mainly just accident.

Like nobody has't shot another running player in the back and saw him NOT to take a hit. This is very commom but can't be helped. The other player just does not know he's been hit because of runnig ect. But if he stops and you are still shooting thet usually (95%) understand thay are hit and react like supposed to (They show orange flag).

I have used this rule ecause or RAV'S and for other west. You just do not feel the hit.

I have heard like tens and tens of complaints in Finland and in Berget events of players who don't take their hits and when you really ask about the matter from the shooter it is like this:" I shot like 200 BB's to that guy so he must have be hit" and when you look at the range it is like 60-100 meters. So there in no chance for the shooter to hit with these weapons we have. And you understand that the shooter has just overquessed he's weapons performance and understated the range to taget.

I must say this also applies to the "terminator" Italians with I did not have any problems of taking hits!
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Post by Trasher-HU » 30 Jun 2009, 00:52

Hyrican wrote:beginers are mostly cheaters you know? call ppl who couldnt call his hits, as noobs but not this ppl who has.
Beginners are the quickest to whine about cheating and hordes of rampaging terminators, when in reality they know little about the game... Oh and they post immature stuff like "Bigest cheaters were from this and that cuz they never called hits". :wink:

This is all I wanted to say.
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gom
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Re: Cheating as a strategy?

Post by gom » 30 Jun 2009, 01:07

Os wrote:
gom wrote:3) After another such incident one of these guys was asked for his Berget ID, to be reported to the game marshalls. He rejected it in very rude words, and the only way how to get the number was to attack him physically.
Did you do this? if so i kinda like the cheating better than the physically attacking ppl.
Of course not, noone has attacked him, I did mean that if we would like to get his ID, the only way would be in attacking him physically, so rather we left him there...
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Post by Jojis » 30 Jun 2009, 01:58

Hyrican I guess you are asking do people think that when fired through a bush the bb-hit changes into a ricochet? I don't believe anyone would think like that. The ricochet rules should only be used in CQB.

The only cheating I saw in the game was one blue guy, who thought he was being hit by friendly fire and so didn't take the hit. In fact he was hit by a flanking enemy, but yeah he should have taken the hit even if it was friendly fire.
To me it is stupid to not take hits from friendlies, and even stupider to assume that anything could be friendly fire. I witnessed this lying only few meters away from him and heard his comments so there was no mistake.

There also was one case with this red guy who got surprised and didn't have a weapon and started throwing fist sized rocks, but I'll leave it at that...

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Hyrican
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Post by Hyrican » 30 Jun 2009, 02:46

There is a rule in the army... you cant hit it when you cant see it but you can hit it when you can see it. Just hope you understand it.

Jolis, ask some ppl from the nato "saturday near bashir city, behind hill with high gras over it" I was there and saw some ppl hits by BBs from ricochet. BBs just droped from the hill and they´ve called all hits... I really saw them cuz they flew over my head down into other players.

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