No10 concluded

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 10
J82
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Post by J82 » 09 Jul 2012, 13:14

jdoe wrote:
wormbyte wrote: I believe that the ceremony then allowed both forces to share re-spawn points.

It was like a seal of a military alliance I guess.
Exactly so, but in addition to spawnpoints, we were also able to share arty and transport points.

Without this "alliance", Saturday's battle would've been very different (read: impossible to win for us).
Sooo one question: how many arty points did Zan use and how many transport points did we managed to use during the saturdays fight? :wink:

Aaaand how many arty's and transpoint points did we share/used after the march ? :wink:

yep yep =D

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Mr Black
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Post by Mr Black » 09 Jul 2012, 13:44

J82 wrote: Sooo one question: how many arty points did Zan use and how many transport points did we managed to use during the saturdays fight? :wink:

Aaaand how many arty's and transpoint points did we share/used after the march ? :wink:

yep yep =D
I don´t even know if you were Zan or NAF since your profile doesn´t say that. But i suggest that you ask your Bat. CO. :)
Hic sunt mortem

Nemo me impune lacessit

B8 NAF 5th Infantry, Plt leader Echo Delta
B9 NAF 1st Mech Inf Btn, Coy CO Cobra 1
B10 NAF 2nd Mech Inf Btn, 2iC
B11 UA17 (Captain Black)
B12 Civilian (Jim Tom Mudwater)

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Parzi
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Post by Parzi » 09 Jul 2012, 14:55

Shitloads of NAF arty points were used on the saturdays last fight. i gave the the firing coordinates and NAF field HQ did the actual firing. It all ended that we would have fired more but the artillery was overheated :lol:
Berget 7 - SRP, SL
Berget 8 - Poldavia 1Inf, SL
Berget 9 - Zansian Black Ops, Command Squad
Berget 10 - Zansia Infantry Battalion Commander
Berget 11 - GCT SFODU Commander
Berget 12 - GCT Intelligence Unit Commander
Berget 13 - GCT Para Infantry Commander

J82
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Post by J82 » 09 Jul 2012, 16:26

Parzi wrote:Shitloads of NAF arty points were used on the saturdays last fight. i gave the the firing coordinates and NAF field HQ did the actual firing. It all ended that we would have fired more but the artillery was overheated :lol:
Ok. How about our transpoint points? Did we use them?

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jdoe
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Post by jdoe » 09 Jul 2012, 18:17

Transport points are always a bit unhelpful in Berget. In B8 they worked reasonably well, but this year we saw there was very little transport vehicles (by BE) on the field, so we didn't even try to use them. Our own ingame vehicles sufficed for majority of ops on the field.

I counted we used at least 30 artillery points on Saturday. Without the shared points with NAF, we would have only been able to use 2 points.
B16 - The Firm / Gun for hire
B15 - CPT/HQ/FinBat
B10 - 1st Coy CO / Zansian "Black Guard" Btn XO
B8 - I/1.Coy/1st Pold.Inf, Platoon Ldr (Fox 1-0)
B7 - SRP Fox Platoon 2IC/Arty FO
B5 - FFF Oulu Platoon Ldr

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wormbyte
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Post by wormbyte » 09 Jul 2012, 18:54

I would like to see the berget transportation balanced between the teams taking in to account the availability of player vehicles.

Because there is no control over player vehicles, it is quite possible for one side to have a lot of troop transportation capability over the opposing side. This causes an in-balance between the sides which could be re-balance with one side getting more berget transport than the other.
B6 - Platoon Commander (India 1st Platoon) - NATO
B7 - Company Commander (India Coy) - NATO
B10 - 3rd Rangers Commander
B12 - GCT Ranger Commander
B13 - GCT Para Inf - Company Commander
B14 - Commanding Officer of the Nordic Alliance Force

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Tiger_1
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Post by Tiger_1 » 09 Jul 2012, 20:10

Transport points was never a problem, we had enought to carry out the transports we planned. Transport points are earned, the more you fight and hold, the less walking you need to do. Giving berget a good timetable for when and where you need transport also helps.

I believe we had 34 or 36 art points for Saturday, never got close to using all, and I got a hot gun after one fire mission (must have been the zansians using my guns ;) ). I was happy the useless art strikes on main base did not happen this year.
"go to your God like a soldier!"

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Mr Black
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Post by Mr Black » 10 Jul 2012, 13:11

Tiger_1 wrote:I was happy the useless art strikes on main base did not happen this year.
+ 1
wormbyte wrote:I would like to see the berget transportation balanced between the teams taking in to account the availability of player vehicles.

Because there is no control over player vehicles, it is quite possible for one side to have a lot of troop transportation capability over the opposing side. This causes an in-balance between the sides which could be re-balance with one side getting more berget transport than the other.
Balancing in the way you suggest would be time consuming. You cannot just count the number of free seats/vehicle. According to a poll research pre-B10 25% of NAF mech brought their vehicles for their own convenience and not to give other players a ride. That decision is something the vehicle owner has the full right to make (I´m not saying that wormbyte says any different).

Neither can you be sure of every vehicle making it to Berget. For instance a Unimog didn´t make it to B10 witch hade quite an effect on the Bat. capacity.

Therefore it would be a pain in the ass to actually know the exact amount of players each side´s mech would actually be able to transport.
Hic sunt mortem

Nemo me impune lacessit

B8 NAF 5th Infantry, Plt leader Echo Delta
B9 NAF 1st Mech Inf Btn, Coy CO Cobra 1
B10 NAF 2nd Mech Inf Btn, 2iC
B11 UA17 (Captain Black)
B12 Civilian (Jim Tom Mudwater)

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jdoe
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Post by jdoe » 10 Jul 2012, 16:18

Mr Black wrote: Balancing in the way you suggest would be time consuming. You cannot just count the number of free seats/vehicle. According to a poll research pre-B10 25% of NAF mech brought their vehicles for their own convenience and not to give other players a ride. That decision is something the vehicle owner has the full right to make (I´m not saying that wormbyte says any different).
This is exactly the reason we make sure every year that the ingame vehicles brought to the game and their crew understand, that they're vehicles will be needed by the whole contingent, not just their squad / platoon. We cannot force or intimidate anyone, but so far everyone has been ok with this.

The perk is, you get a share of our every-year "gasoline pool", which is money collected from all players taking part in the event on our contingent. It is voluntary to give a small amount of cash to the pool, but usually the drivers and vehicle owners get a nice sum of money to use in their expenses. Usually it covers 1/3 - 1/2 of the gasoline expenses, plus maybe 1-2 pizzas. :)
B16 - The Firm / Gun for hire
B15 - CPT/HQ/FinBat
B10 - 1st Coy CO / Zansian "Black Guard" Btn XO
B8 - I/1.Coy/1st Pold.Inf, Platoon Ldr (Fox 1-0)
B7 - SRP Fox Platoon 2IC/Arty FO
B5 - FFF Oulu Platoon Ldr

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Wulf
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Post by Wulf » 17 Jul 2012, 19:06

Thanks for the game on my behalf also. As a former game master I know very well how big job it is to create a game this huge. However things can always be done better so the feedback is important. As a Finn I'm used to say things straight despite that someone might take them offencive so please don't get mad. I want to help the crew (and also our command) to understand some things that might need to be improved, not to offend anyone.

This was my second Berget and the feelings after game are pretty much same as in 2010. There were both very enjoyable moments and very irritating moments. I chose Zansian inf. for two reasons. First of all I like to play with my fellow Finns because I can count on them. I know that every man in the line knows what to do. Many of us are also used to fight together so we can operate smooth and fast. The second reason was the line "90% offencive" on the web pages.

It should have been "90% hiking and waiting for something".

Yes, we were infantry so we allways walked everywhere (I have no idea where Zansia's two vehicles were during the game, I never saw them transporting enyone). I can live with that. But we didn't have the promised field hospitals and all of our (or at least my platoon's) missions were on the other side of the game area. In most missions we didn't have respawn at all or it was way back and on some really hard terrain. Because of this we usually didn't have any realistic chances to get offencive missions completed. Opposing forces had allways much more men and respawn somewhere near.

I don't think it's fun at all to walk 10 km (for some reason we had to go around half of the game area every time we went somewhere even when the destination was near) just to be killed in a suicide attact against overwhelming enemy and then walk all the way back to base for respawning. Also my platoon was mostly ordered to guard some place (= empty forest) or to wait if we would be needed to help some others somewhere. At thursday we waited 18 hours. 18 hours! Yes, it's good to have enough rest (this is not a real war after all) but enough is enough.

As an infantry grunt I don't know where the problem was. Maybe it was the BE crew, maybe our leaders, perhaps both or something else. For my point of view it seemed that everything we tried to do was restricted or made nearly impossible by the game masters or our command. If we get anything to do at all.

The Finns... Zansians functioned pretty much like in the army. This means great efficiency but also some serious cons. I don't consider milsim airsoft as a mandatory reservist course. That's not fun in my opinion. Now we allways had to hurry just for waiting. And then we wait. And sat on an empty forest. And walked miles for no apparent reason. Just like in the army. IMO: not fun. Perhaps our command should think about this a little.

The final battle at saturday was great. It saved our whole game. Without it my team's Berget would have been mostly waste of money. Ok, we had great moments also on wednesday and friday but they were not enough to compensate all not-so-great-at-all moments.

Summary: much more missions, missions that have some point and especially more battles.

There were some cheaters. And there will allways be. Only thing we can do is to report to game masters if possible. Even so I would like to point out few insidents. A friend of mine came across some Poldavian Russian guy. My friend shot him so that one could see and hear the hits on his chest. The Russian guy ignored them so my friend shot him in to face. It's not nice but I can understand it. The Russian didn't take that hit either but took my friends number and complained to game master who then cave a warning to my friend. This outrageous cheater didn't get warning.

I saw numerous times when Poldavian vehicles ignored totally our mines. This happened also when about 20-30 Poldavians did a suicide run to NAF base. The mines were very visible.

An other vehicle related problem was those Poldavian trucks who kept their windows only few centimetres open so that the vehicle crew could shoot but we had no changes to shoot them (we didn't have BAVS either). Some vehicles had plexiglass windows with tiny holes for shooting. If not cheating it's still not fair game and also makes people shoot the car which can lead to damage.

For Finns it seems to be somekind of taboo to criticise toilets etc. because "in the army we were weeks in the forest without toilets and showers". As I said before this is not the army and we pay quite a lot for this game. I would like to thank the BE crew for the good sanitary options. I faced only some minor problems like run out toilet paper and dirty showers. These are small things but could be done better with small efforts.

The old Swedish tents were just horrible. Our tent leaked so much that it could be used as a shower. I praise the engineers who designed my bivy sack. It was the only thing that kept me absolutely dry when I was sleeping in huge mud pit under a bad shower called tent. Please find better tents or at least treat the old tents with some water proof chemical. Also stoves are the only good way to dry clothes and gear. I know that stoves can be dangerous if one don't know how to use them even if they have spark killers in their pipes. Despite that I think the stoves should be at least an option.

I wait for Berget 11 story and more information before I decide whether to participate or not. At the moment it seems that playing with other Finns is not very gratifying any more. Yes, we have got some benefits because of our good cooperation with the BE crew. But are they worth of it if one don't have fun anymore?
B8 - Poldavian 1st Inf. Btn. 1st Coy. 3rd Ptn Hammer 1
B10 - Zansian "Black guard" Inf. Btn. Echo 1

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Me4ka
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Post by Me4ka » 18 Jul 2012, 10:57

Unbelievable !!!!

This is the story of my platoon (33 players from Fox 4, 23 NAF)

Brrrrr...I look again...No, this is the story of our colleagues from Zansiyan.

Absolute coincidence ! 1:1
Three days in the game - three days keeping the trees.
34 km walk, 7 hollow missions and only one contact with the enemy.

Buddy, you were written and our memories of Berget-10.
The Final Strike..was...The Final mountain trip.

You motivates me, I`ll sit and I`ll write about our
blue participation in this lonely forest game.
Thank you.

Regards,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ
Berget vet.
KYP platoon
Alevan team

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Post by SpA » 13 Aug 2012, 14:04

I want to add to what Wulf said:

The walking is ok when there's a price for it. An ambush against enemy transports, sabotaging a depot, gathering intelligence or that sort. Small force like Zansias was in my opinion misused in the game.

The strenght of the Zansian troops, absolutely no soloing, should have been used for small units tactics. There's no point in 50 to 100 men rushing against a heavily fortified enemy position strenght of 200 men without artillery support or BAVS. There should have been more thinking on how to use our "90% offensive" force. Easy to say now when the game is over.

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Re: No10 concluded

Post by HORNET » 03 Nov 2012, 19:51

Come-on BE! Is there going to be at least few words from you, why B10 went so wrong? Did you guys at least read the forum where experienced 5+Berget games veterans are disappointed from you?
B11 tickets being released tonight. Do you think that those veterans will return?
Berget- 6 NATO / Fox Coy / Fox-4 Squad Leader
Berget- 7 NATO / Fox Coy / Fox-4 Platoon Leader
Berget- 8 NAF23 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander
Berget- 9 NAF6 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander
Berget-10 NAF23 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander

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Blackwolf
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Re: No10 concluded

Post by Blackwolf » 06 Nov 2012, 02:56

Hello
Come-on BE! Is there going to be at least few words from you, why B10 went so wrong? Did you guys at least read the forum where experienced 5+Berget games veterans are disappointed from you?
B11 tickets being released tonight. Do you think that those veterans will return?
+ 1
BLACKWOLF
BERGET 5 NATO SQUAD LEADER
BERGET 6 NATO PLATOON LEADER
BERGET 7 NATO COMPANY COMMANDER
BERGET 8 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
BERGET 9 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
BERGET 10 NAF ALL THE WAY
MEMBER HOSTILE OPERATIONS TEAM
PORTUGAL

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Re: No10 concluded

Post by Berget-events » 06 Nov 2012, 18:25

From B11 info.

We have spent much time reading and collecting feedback from the community and there are many things that will be updated and changed to make the beginning of this new campaign the best possible experience.

Below are some of the changes that will be implemented at Berget 11 - Iron Walls.


- All main bases and camps will have a senior gamemaster in HQ during gametime
- The uniform distribution & restrictions will be reworked to get a better balance of the teams
- The dedicated staff in HQ and C&C units will get free food and tickets
- Commanders will be recruited earlier
- Remote controlled Bavs IED will be introduced
- BAVS will be upgraded to work better and be produced in greater numbers
- The routine and system to coordinate missions to all units will be upgraded to work better
- We will invest in more of the newer Armytents & trash many of the old ones
- Civilians, Berget dollars, larp and rouge units will play a bigger part of this campaign
- Rules for Vehicles will be updated and made clearer
- MGL missions for main units will be dropped
Berget-events

Please send general questions to:
info@berget-events.com

Please send payment questions to:
payment@berget-events.com

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