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Feedback and debriefings from Berget 10
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HORNET
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Post by HORNET » 03 Jul 2012, 23:47

Cyanid wrote:
If you don't inform an ranger that you want to march straight into an battle unprepared the ranger will "zig-zag" (personally I call it flanking) and maneuver silently (not shouting in the radio so it can be heard all the way to the scouts ahead) and assess the situation before engaging. Or do you think the car that we caught completely of guard in the narrows between the trees would have been suprised walking straight into the AO guns blazing?
Ma frendo...(that's pigin english, in plases I have served they speak it) I can tell you that the ones that were leading us to the oil field... clearly did not had a clue what they were doing. I have 3 words for them: map, compass, gps... and of course the knowledge how to use them. The choice of track was so exposed that if this was for real, non of us would make it to the objective point.
Berget- 6 NATO / Fox Coy / Fox-4 Squad Leader
Berget- 7 NATO / Fox Coy / Fox-4 Platoon Leader
Berget- 8 NAF23 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander
Berget- 9 NAF6 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander
Berget-10 NAF23 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander

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Post by wormbyte » 04 Jul 2012, 00:04

Right let's nip this one in the bud can we people.

This should be about focusing on feedback for the game organisers, not tearing each other to bits, especially guys from the same side.
B6 - Platoon Commander (India 1st Platoon) - NATO
B7 - Company Commander (India Coy) - NATO
B10 - 3rd Rangers Commander
B12 - GCT Ranger Commander
B13 - GCT Para Inf - Company Commander
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Post by Robin-Hood » 04 Jul 2012, 00:10

I had fantastic time, much more enjoyable than Berget 9 for me. Everything was better. Organisation on BE's part was very impressive compared to last year, still room for improvement though.

Brujo you did a great job leading the Sappers, your officer selection was very good too, kudos to Taksi and the likes. You and you're guys are top notch. I hope I have the honour of playing along side you again.


The Sappers team was awesome.
:team:

The Good:

- Organisation by BE, water provided, toilets cleaned, etc. Everything was much better than last year.

- Lack of Cheating. I only encountered one instance of really blatant cheating where a player didn't call their hits.

- Leadership. It was vastly better this year than last year in my opinion. Everything ran smoother at the grunt level.

- More info about missions and the story than last year, really improved my enjoyment.

- Fighting the Finns. Not much is more enjoyable, you guys put up a seriously good fight. It's a pleasure to play against you, really a challenge.


The Bad:

- BAVs grenades. Pre-ordering them straight away and then being told 3 times trying to pick them up 'theyre not ready yet', then eventually getting them and being given old grenades that don't fit most grenade launchers. Bullshit to be perfectly honest, if you're paying for something like this people shouldn't be given a product that you already know doesn't work properly. We had to use sniper tape and try to jury rig them into the launchers and they were unreliable to use.
Waldo wrote: - The "Guard the Silo" mission on friday night.
Yeah this whole mission was a cluster --- SPAM !!! ---. So many things went wrong with it.

I'm okay with standing around on duty like that, hell I was up on some fucking rock freezing my dick off for hours until I couldn't feel my fingers. However when I found out about a few things (which I won't go into publicly here) I just said screw this and left.


- The lack of civvies was also a big disappointment. I really missed the LARP elements, I really think they are what make the event. Without that element to bring immersion it feels so much more like just a 'game'.

- Still too little on the story and pre-mission info was very lacking. For instance the buses with the blacked windows, no info there at all. If we had been told we were going to attack a missile silo which was vital to our war effort and achieving victory it would have made it so much cooler!

- Pre-game drinking is just a bad idea. I have no idea why BE didn't incorporate the pre-game celebration thing into the after party stuff.

- It annoys me that the NAF base is on a camp site, and for more than one year in a row. They have showers and all sorts of facilities. Feels biased to be perfectly honest.

- The state players left the camp site in, it was f***ing disgusting in some of those BE provided tents. You're grown men and women, learn to clean up after yourself for christs sake.


The Hilarious:


- NAF Complaining that their SHOWERS should be cleaned more often! Seriously people?!

- NAF player complaining that he had to drive around in a truck all day and he was too tired to play. Try walking next time.

- Diverting a nuke 100m from target? ROFL. Just ROFL.
Last edited by Robin-Hood on 04 Jul 2012, 00:43, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Redmenace_tv » 04 Jul 2012, 00:10

wormbyte wrote:Right let's nip this one in the bud can we people.

This should be about focusing on feedback for the game organisers, not tearing each other to bits, especially guys from the same side.
+1
(TOM)
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Berget 9 - 2IC NAF 1st Mech battalion
Berget 10 -2IC NAF 23rd Inf Battalion
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Berget 12 - AWOL
Berget 13 - ?

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Post by sirwiz » 04 Jul 2012, 00:52

First thanks to all from 3rd MNT, for good game.

Now the sad things. It was my 3rd Berget, and it was worst Berget.

Why?

First - who to hell make Zans yellow badges? Their vehicles often have more orange flags then yellow, also players somehimes have more orange then yellow badges. Orange for me its dont shoot. There is no hard border between yellow and orange, in wood seeing oponent for a few seconds its hard to find out its yellow Zans, yellow Berget crew, or just orange dead/offgame.

Second - All vehicles move and attack with closed windows, and peoples inside vahicles only open 2cm back window to shoot in any direction through this hole ......

Third - organization, there was no Berget crew in Poldavian camp all the time, i try to tell them about few ingame issues and in Berget meal tent i was told: "maybe in safe zone you found someone..." i tryes 4 time ... Bags full of trashes laying arround all the time. And sawing any Berget crew peoples on ingame terrain was hard. Last years they check, they run, then organize all, now i dont saw them much.

Last - at 10 Berget with higher price and jubilee i expected more fireworks, but i get poor standard 3 day shooting party. For sure not bad, but also not good.

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Post by turret » 04 Jul 2012, 01:22

Obi-San wrote:Great thanks to 3rd MNT 3rd Coy.
You where great, and it has been great honor to work with you!
I was appointed 5days before berget, and had a little time to prepare myself for command, but tried to remain good commander, shared all info i had(there was little of it, but still its good to know that those points you held, where not the only ones that didnt attacked).
Tried to get you some action when it was possible, so i hope you are not mad for me becouse of that long walks and sittings you had :)
Found new friends, and meet old ones.

And BC, at least try to make good game. Those missions you gave where joke. That showers aftergame where joke. The beerparty? Hell, even Sollaftea had better beerparty. Gamemasters where joke - after i turned to one, when some rules where broken, he just told me "oh well, there is violations from your side to, so live with it".
Dont stop on what you have, try to make better things.
Cheers.

P.S. i hope to hear review from 3rd Coy Mountaineers, on how was my command. Only that way i can realize my mistakes
Reporting in !!
I was Deputy Platoon Leader with Geboren in 3rd Mountaineers, 3rd Coy, 1st platoon and had a big M60 in my arms. (my opinion doesnt reflect the one of my fellow mates even if some points are shared)


Obi-san: you did great with us and I'm really satisfied to have been commanded by u at B10. (it would have been cool to have more missions but we werent the only ones to be under your command so no offense taken)
I'd suggest though you to get more batteries for your radio since being unreachable on Friday is a big problem for a COY CO. :idea:

Extra positive point on the Cold gear for Saturday game: Kilt + Shirt was a real challenge and you provided !! (private joke for that last word :D)



Global feedback is almost like all the ones I have read: crappy game for the final strike of Berget.


We had decided after 2 great games with NAF and BlackWolf as a leader to opt out for the greener side of the force. (WL in swedish forrest rules)
Obi-san did his best to get us good missions but something went wrong on the way. (and he proved quickly not being the one responsible for that situation)
We did our best to have fun ingame but could hardly do; hopefully we are an imaginative and happy bunch of guys who managed to do their best to enjoy this time together and we did so much. (plus Sweden is a very lovely country for its particular landscape)


MGL game on Friday night was a big joke (as the others ones considering the feedbacks) only here to give satisfecit to the Cod/MW players not airsofters or Milsim players.
I'd point out the total lack of respect showed by the guy in charge (a Poldavian PsyOps CO if I'm not wrong) who only barked at ppl without thinking resulting in the VIP to be shot by 20 guys entering a 40m² room at the same time. (hopefully our medic healed him quickly so no game masters knew the professor has been hit and the mission was a fail due to poor leading)
That was insulting, useless and even dangerous in terms of game conditions. (Leading humans doesnt work that way at all)
We had to calm down one of our friends who was about to jump on him because of his behaviour; totally insane.

Another bad point: Attacking 9 mercs (we counted them off afterwards) with 2 full buses of players = 110 pax is just a total non sense.
With our platoon of 17 french/swiss, job would have been done in a way proper manner though with more casualties on our side but THAT IS WHAT MILSIM AIRSOFT IS ABOUT. (I like when things get rough ) :P


I'm really sad to hear that our fellow friends from FOXTROT Coy in NAF had an even worse game.
I've met Alecu and one of his pales at Maxi or ICA in Harnosand before the game (great pleasure to meet them btw) and I know how much he cares about good game and friendship from Berget 7 and 8 when we were side by side.
This should never have happened to them.
Same for BlackWolf who is a really great person considering leading and playing airsoft.


Its astonishing to see that even in opposite sides, feedbacks are the same.
With an italian platoon, we asked ourselves on Friday afternoon where were the NAF players ? we only saw one column on 3 days (30-50 men strong)
We saw more Zansian than NAF. WTF ????


I will not continue on the cons in this game but BE Crew should really have a brainstorm about who did not do his job. (we had words that on second day at noon, Poldavian HQ hadnt yet received its book of mission for the day; seriously ??)
For the end users we are, it feels like Berget has become a big commercial event and not a Milsim game anymore; I hope to be totally wrong on that but the feeling is here anyway. (138€ is an expensive fare to walk 15km a day )


I also like to thank Tiger in our Poldavian HQ who proved to be really nice and available whenever we reached him.
With ppl like him, why did it get so wrong ?


NB: Berget prepaid food were too light in quantity and quality; for a mere 9€ per meal, we could have expected far better (B8 was a good example of that)

NB2: pardon my bad english if I've made mistakes; I'm just a regular french guy. :oops:

NB3: sorry for the feedback pretty much not constructed but I wrote what was in my mind at the time. All points are valid though.
B5: NATO Echo 5
B7: NAF 23rd Foxtrot 2
B8: NAF 23rd Foxtrot 2
B10: Pol 3rd MNT 3rd Coy
B11: Blood Raven

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Post by Hazardous » 04 Jul 2012, 02:10

Cyanid wrote:
Blackwolf wrote:
Hello

I will start by saying this.

1st IT WAS THE WORST BERGET EVER
2nd C&C does not work period.
3rd IT was boring not to have nice special missions like at B9
4th 3 day game and one encounter with Poldavian troops sucks, and only because we searched them.

Now looking at the game scenario BE put up and you reading the missions 1st i can only say that ALL THE GOOD MISSIONS WHERE GIVEN TO THE RANGERS.

The 2 MGL missions where a complete JOKE
1st MGL with a platoon of Rangers and 4 snipers and 2 23rd NAF companies.
Right the Rangers lead the way in a zig-zag that took 2 hours to get to the Oil fields, when it could have been done in 45 minutes.
Mate first you complain that all the good and cool missions are given to the rangers, then you go on complaining about how an good and cool mission is executed. For you information it's generally not an good idea to advance straight on anything without intel, that you clearly lacked.

If you don't inform an ranger that you want to march straight into an battle unprepared the ranger will "zig-zag" (personally I call it flanking) and maneuver silently (not shouting in the radio so it can be heard all the way to the scouts ahead) and assess the situation before engaging. Or do you think the car that we caught completely of guard in the narrows between the trees would have been suprised walking straight into the AO guns blazing?

Just my 2 cents, hate hypocrite complaints about things that you clearly don't have the foggiest idea of how to handle.

P.S. Oh and by the way, awesome game!
+1

I'm sorry that you'r disappointed of the approach of the RGL, but I have to say, the Commander has no say in how to execute a mission. If you like to direct the approach, apply for a Squad Leader position.
HORNET wrote:Ma frendo...(that's pigin english, in plases I have served they speak it) I can tell you that the ones that were leading us to the oil field... clearly did not had a clue what they were doing. I have 3 words for them: map, compass, gps... and of course the knowledge how to use them. The choice of track was so exposed that if this was for real, non of us would make it to the objective point.
Trust me, the guy in the form is a expert navigator, there was lots of more to the equation that went wrong there. Like a google map copy is not a map. Wrong intel on the drop site. Orders to follow the 9th Sniper Team. Appropriate approach for a hit.

Things aside, Great game every one! I know there was problems, but these things happens IRL! Remember Murphys law! So I actually kind of liked that shit got sideways! :D Grate game, and the weather? well that's IRL too!, that's way I applied for milsim! DAMN GOOD LOVES INFANTRY! xD
-Mike
B8: NAF 3rd Ranger
B9: NAF 3rd Ranger - PlSgt
B10: NAF 3rd Ranger - PlSgt
B11: Head of Rico's bodyguards
B12: Blood Raven - 2IC
B13: IKAROS Cerberus - 2IC
B14: Arrival of my first born
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Post by Blackwolf » 04 Jul 2012, 02:48

Hello

TURRET thank you for the words.

You know me allready for a couple of years, and now how i think.

We probably have to look for International games elsewhere.

Regards

Blackwolf
BLACKWOLF
BERGET 5 NATO SQUAD LEADER
BERGET 6 NATO PLATOON LEADER
BERGET 7 NATO COMPANY COMMANDER
BERGET 8 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
BERGET 9 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
BERGET 10 NAF ALL THE WAY
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Post by g0rd0n » 04 Jul 2012, 04:15

hey guys, i played with the ODA541 in the poldavian side this year.

as mentioned by turret, there were many disappointing aspects that happened during the game, but the swiss team left the game area with good memories and a reborn, strong friendship.

The mission from friday was not a joke, it was way worse. Probably the lamest mission i did in an event like that.

1. We tell us that we'll be the first platoon to get into the building, clear it up and extract the dude. nothing goes as planned. Some freaks starts shooting inside the building as it was a firing range, which did not allowed our group to do anything at all.

2. by signing in the 3rd mtn, the ODA 541 chose to play a MILSIM type of game. the DIN TUR buses were from my point of view, one of the biggest disappointment of the game... you expect military vehicles, jeeps, picks ups, or any other engins on wheels that look straighter than those gay ass busses. this completely ruined the atmosphere and we couldn't stop laughing. worst joke ever.

3. why did you guys decided to take 100 dudes to attack a building that is not that big, guarded by not even a platoon? waste of resources, waste of time, waste of money. I heard that some people insisted to get onboard, commanders should have refused...

4. we told us:

1st version: you guys are gonna destroy some shit and kick some ass, however, its gonna be a loooong walk.

2nd. version: capture a dude, we dont know how he looks like and kill the rest

3rd version: load up your back ups you gonna be the team entering the building and kick ass.

4th version: ok get in the busses those 80 guys are gonna open a breach so you guys can go through.


ALL THIS TO SAY, it pisses me off big time when a mission that sounds awesome turns into an ocean of ugly monkey Shit... there is no need of doing it complicated just so it looks cool....
B07: NATO - Foxtrot Company
B10: Poldavian - 3rd Mountaineers
B11: Blood Ravens - Recon Team

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Post by vardemis » 04 Jul 2012, 04:56

Kalchev wrote:
Gratz to the rangers for having the fun we never were given a chance to have, because you know, we are infantry, not rangers! :lol:
1st Thx for us

2nd, yes you were infantry and you chosed it no ?

Maybe you prefer to have our 16 H our recon mission where we only see the enemy through scope, hide from him etc ???

in the four day 1 shot 5 mag of 90 Bbs at max ...

If yes you should have chosed the ranger, not the infantry ....

I don't know what is you fun but mine was there doing recce for the infantry to take the fight and the fun part of shooting thousands of BB ...
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Post by vardemis » 04 Jul 2012, 05:15

Rubber Duckie wrote:From reading the posts here and talking with players from all the factions i think Berget crew have a lot to answer for. I had to fight for 20 mins to get a group of poldovian troops transported to there base from the naf base for health and safty issues by an ingame military vechicle . On sunday while sorting the extraction of some soked to the skin and shivering pollies freno had to drive a rl doctor from psy-ops to look at a injured naf player as no one was answering from berget crew phones. I would like to thant that same doctor for interviening with berget crey that wanted me to walk from the polly base back to my base with a badly sprained knee. When the rest of my 9 man unit asked if they could come or at least have the backpack brought up the responce was " you played to play so u can walk we are not a taxi service".
I am looking forward to an official responce from berget crew for the issues that people have raised here and i have no doubt the many more that have yet to be pointed out

I did hace the same shit blabla at the safe base

Your ranger you can walk I have done B 3 bla bla bla ....

Or the "Sorry after 3 in the morning no more pick up" ....

Berget crew fail this 10th event more than everything ...
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Post by spin_t » 04 Jul 2012, 07:01

After 5 pages on this topic,i think the idea is clear: people need way more from this game.
What i don't see is an official point of view from BCrew.
What give me doubts for joining the next year game is some trustees opinion that still was a "great" game.
I think it will be more important for those who still want to join some other Berget games to come with improvement ideas,and most important,to be somehow sure this ideas will be implemented for the next game.
So,enough,stop bitching and come with solutions !:))
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Post by pack » 04 Jul 2012, 09:11

+1 for Spin_t .

And I want to begin with a few ideas for improving :

1. Tents in good shape - or permission to come with ours.(the bases where not so "invisible" anyway) and showers.
2. Better organizing – I mean the staff should have a clear idea of what the game is suppose to look like.(I’d had an impression that it was more like “go with the flow …”)(I had the impression that people/staff don’t want to wake up and give missions - I mean wake up from the bad/tent in the morning)
3. Don’t call it an anniversary (10’th) if is not more then an normal event, without any highlights.
4. Find those people who doesn’t had lost their love for the game and have the energy to organize and revitalized it.
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Post by ilion » 04 Jul 2012, 10:33

I will start by saying that this year game was by far the worst Berget game compared to the last 3 I have attended.
To enumerate some of the issues that I have seen or heard from other players:

- big problem with the scenario story which we feel that was absent this year or had no tie with the game what so ever
- in game assets very poor this year
- some game masters didn't even know the rules or did not apply them even when issues were brought to their attention on the spot
- issues with crono, even if you had 100 m/s rifle you still have 10 m MED this was not present in the game rules or maybe I missed something.
- a lot of BAV's where useless, worked only if you were 3 m form the vehicle
- tents where a joke, I have seen at least 3 tents collapse after when it rained and even our friends tent was anchored very poorly, they had to reinforce it.
- half of the map had no strategic importance and was almost never used
- the lack of civilians and LARP players was noticed and had a big impact on the game.

This are only a few of the major things that I saw myself in this years game and a lot of roomers that if true I personally will look for other international games.

Spin_t not to be a pain but it is not our responsibility (as players) to come with the solutions, we can give feedback to the game and based on that feedback the Berget crew must adapt and change in order to meet the players expectations.

regards
Last edited by ilion on 04 Jul 2012, 20:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Deki_AKS » 04 Jul 2012, 10:56

It was my 5th Berget (3rd time on this terrain) so I knew what to expect from players and from BE. It's sad that B10 turned out so bad for most NAF players. I think BE should take full responsibility on that one and learn from it.
I personaly take full responsibility for 15th Sappers Mike Charly Delta incident at the friday night missile silo guard duty and I learned from it.

I thinks it was the worst Berget looking from all players perspective, not just individual units, which brings my personal satisfaction down quite a bit.

---

This year Brujo asked me to take over 15th Sappers, 1st Platoon which was not a problem since I had similar positions on previous Bergets and other international events.

I was very pleased with all my Squad leaders and all the grunts in 1st Pt.
COMM was working almost at 100% and considering that we played together for the first time we were doing just fine.

We were also lucky with the missions and engagements.
For our unit (15th Sappers) there was a lot of action (2-3 contacts per day if not more). We had some great firefights with the Finns, some long walks and one long/rainy guard duty which was the only not so good thing that happened to Sappers, but I learned from it (gear vise and more).


I read a lot of players complain about waiting,...get used to it,..the bigger the game, the longer the wait :). Try organising an event with 300, 500 or more players. There will be waiting, it is human factor.


Poldavian base:
Our tent (new 30person BE tent) was excelent,..positioned away from the dusty road (that was my main concern about the Poldavian base), toilets were just fine, and HQ worked great this year, Tiger had his sh*t under control!
Shooting/testing range was also great, still there were some guys shooting in base but nothing serious.


Thanks to Brujo, Kris, Taxi,... for good coordination and cooperation of our two Platoons. We were indeed privileged unit to have so much BE veterans and experienced players in command.

Deki
B5 Vasiliy Coy - Platoon leader
B6 NATO - Foxtrot Two Platon Leader
B7 ORC - Section leader
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