Unknown Pol nominated for the Grand Asshole of Berget award

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 10
Kadmillos ASIK
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Post by Kadmillos ASIK » 11 Jul 2012, 16:24

In berget 7 there are many crono check during the game , in the B8 same, in the B9 i have only one crono check (in Italy we play with 1 joule max , and in berget we didn't modify our ASG and usually we don't have any restriction or safety distance, this time we have green markings with 10 mt of safety distance) this time i didn't see any check.

I came in Sweden to have fun , to meet softgunners like me and to test my skill, i'm not here to find pain, it's easy.
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Parzi
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Post by Parzi » 11 Jul 2012, 21:57

Kadmillos ASIK wrote:For me ?

Zansian Player, in the top of the hill behind the CrossRoad. He shoot me in full auto from about 6 meters, with a ASG without any kind of markings, when i ask him he said that all the zansian didn't tested the guns and they can shot w/o limit.

Ah he said that the ASG have 1,6 joules.

I have played 5 berget, this was my last.
I dont fully agree with the chrono part.

The Zansian did chrono every last gun of the unit.

We had berget crew give us chrono so we could do it on our base. It´s faster and easier because many players have multiple guns. Its easier to bring chrono to the guns instead of bringing the guns to chrono.

We had berget trustee to do the chrono. We also had orders from berget crew that zansian guns will not be marked with the chrono papers. We had simple orders that the gun either passes or does not pass. The same safety distance rules and m/s restrictions were applied as to any other player in the game. The only diffrence was the we didnt need to mark the weapons i dont know why BE said this but they did. Instead of marking the guns with papers our berget trustee who did the chrono test said to the player that if he had safety distance and how long.

If the zansian player had a powerful gun he should have used the proper safety distance that everybody else would.

So i dont say that the Zansian player did the right thing, no. I am only making it clear that we DID chrono all guns and i can promise that.
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johanRisch
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Post by johanRisch » 11 Jul 2012, 22:06

Well if that was the case I would really like to know why in hell the zansian didn't get the same treatment as the rest of us?
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Rainer
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Post by Rainer » 11 Jul 2012, 23:58

Guys, this thread is getting out of hand. Aswell as all the other nominees threads.
The after game discussions are turning bitter and negative.
No need for that !
It was a fantastic game , less cheating and more honestly fighting in the field.

But ,the fact of the of the matter is that the crhoning led by Berget crew opens for a deray of interperation and will surly attract som dishonest airsofters that will take advantage of the system.

Fact one : The chroning is NOT individual.
This mean there is no record if you did actually check in and chrooned your weapons or not.

Fact two :
After check in your are let loose inside the gaming area with no one forcing
regulations regarding safty distances.

Fact three: If there is no point to get your gun checked by a chrono and follow the rules there is bound to be people who won't bother.

Fact four: Given Berget is a light LARP milsisirish skimirsh there will be cheaters, liars, and your accational dumbass.
Deal with it and get over it.
Rainer

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Pete
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Post by Pete » 12 Jul 2012, 00:08

As one of the Finnish Berget trustees, I took responsibility as instructed by the BE crew to supervise the chroning of the Zansian guns. This matter was already agreed between our commander this year and the gamemasters. However, the situation is not new, it was done in B7 and in B9 also, always supervised by Finnish berget trustees.

Kadmillos: Armband number of this player? All the players in the Zansian camp were ordered to chrono their guns at the chroning spot next to our base. Chrono used was provided by the Crew as were the simple instructions how to conduct the chroning itself. I asked for the paper tags from crew, but I was told we did not need those. I personally checked and abided by the instructions through more than 500 guns, from hi-powered rifles to even Marui GBBs following the simple instructions given to me by gamemaster and the chronospot personnel.

If person did not chrono his gun, then he violated Berget rules and should be accountable for this. But I assure you, attending to the chroning at the "official" spot is surely not more "water-proof" for those who really are into cheating.

johanRisch: To get an "objective" answer, this you must ask from the Crew. The Finnish contingent has been given this show of trust from the crew in three of the four Berget games I have taken part into. In my view, it frees crew personnel from handling another 500-600 or so guns and it facilitates our contingent´s preparation (officer/NCO/personnel planning, base fortifications, guard duty...) for the event itself, as our unit stays as a whole throughout the wednesday afternoon and evening before the gamestart.


Edit: Rainer´s post, +1.
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Post by johanRisch » 12 Jul 2012, 01:01

I do not oppose to the fact of your croning the zansians guns, but if they wanted to avoid large chroning queues why not just have a station at zansian, Naf and plodovian bases. That would probably make the check in experience much easier for almost every player:

* park your car
* check in
* acquire the location of your base
* drive to you base
* get settled
* chron your guns when your are ready

instead of parking your car getting _all_ of your guns out. Carrying all the guns to the safe, check in chrono, carry all the guns back and then drive to your base. It would most likely put an end to the need for 3 BE crew telling people to park their car 100m away from the main safe.

As you can see my complaint was not about chroning the guns in zansian bases, it was the fact that the logistics is much more complicated for the rest of us. One person should be able to chrono all the guns in a base during almost 48hrs :)
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Post by jdoe » 12 Jul 2012, 01:49

johanRisch wrote:I do not oppose to the fact of your croning the zansians guns, but if they wanted to avoid large chroning queues why not just have a station at zansian, Naf and plodovian bases. That would probably make the check in experience much easier for almost every player
Exactly, and that is what we have wondered within our own small faction every single year. Why make it so difficult, when you can make it so much easier and faster?

As you said, go check-in, get your base location, drive to your base and get settled, then chrono your guns and get the tags.

I think everyone should have the tags, and chrono-stats written up by player ID. That takes a little more work, but have 1-2 extra people doing the chronoing. Should be no big deal.
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jdoe
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Post by jdoe » 12 Jul 2012, 01:59

Kadmillos ASIK wrote: Zansian Player, in the top of the hill behind the CrossRoad. He shoot me in full auto from about 6 meters, with a ASG without any kind of markings, when i ask him he said that all the zansian didn't tested the guns and they can shot w/o limit.
You are Italian, right? I probably heard about this incident from a fellow player who was at the spot. Now if it IS the same case, as I understood, it was settled and handshaked on the spot. It is interesting this should come up again after game, when it was most obviously talked through and settled on the spot?

If this is the same case you are also leaving something out, unfortunately, and the story is not quite the same.
Kadmillos ASIK wrote:I have played 5 berget, this was my last.
Hope you had fun, and hope you find your game someplace else.
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Post by Coffe » 12 Jul 2012, 03:39

jdoe wrote: I think everyone should have the tags, and chrono-stats written up by player ID. That takes a little more work, but have 1-2 extra people doing the chronoing. Should be no big deal.
I agree with this.

Or rather than using tags which are small and easily lost, just make players carry a "weapons documentation" or something (preferably in some kind of aminated paper that can take getting wet) where each weapon owned and brought by that specific player is listed with chrono-information, safety distance and tied to the player ID.

If players are trusted to be responsible enough to wear armbands with correct armband number, then holding on to a piece of paperwith gun statistics shouldn't be a problem.

If a player lose that document then they should have to re-chrono their weapons and get a new document.

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Jason
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Post by Jason » 17 Jul 2012, 14:43

Or perhaps add the chrono-stats to armband with black pen?

The best solution would be to increase the amount of on-field chronoing a lot, or even require a mandatory chronoing before you're able to leave / return to base. The latter option would be a pineapple-sized pain in the ass, but would no doubt be effective...
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Redmenace_tv
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Post by Redmenace_tv » 17 Jul 2012, 23:59

Coloured zip ties? each colour could be a different class, they could be attached to the gun at game on by the chronoing team.
(TOM)
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Wulf
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Post by Wulf » 18 Jul 2012, 00:49

Jason wrote:The best solution would be to increase the amount of on-field chronoing a lot, or even require a mandatory chronoing before you're able to leave / return to base. The latter option would be a pineapple-sized pain in the ass, but would no doubt be effective...
Are you serious? You want to turn airsoft games into a "cop state"? Is cheating really such big problem that the whole idea of trust and honesty in airsoft should be ruined? I don't think so. If your vision ever become alive I'll vote with my legs.
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Mr Black
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Post by Mr Black » 18 Jul 2012, 06:06

Redmenace_tv wrote:Coloured zip ties? each colour could be a different class, they could be attached to the gun at game on by the chronoing team.
+1
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HerrNilson
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Post by HerrNilson » 18 Jul 2012, 13:28

Berget themselves didn't seem to follow their own chrono rules.

I have an upgrades AEG, to just below the limit allowed for Berget with a 10m distance. I chrono'd on arrival and was given a paper tag which said as much with no means to fix it to my weapon.

The same dude chrono'd a standard MP7 with a limit below the max for Zero or point blank. I was given an identical tag to my upgraded weapon telling me my minimum distance was the same.

According to he Berget rules posted on the website before hand this made no sense whatsoever. There seem to have been a large number of instances where the GM guys themselves hadn't read the rules.

Saying this, I didn't witness too many instances of point blank firing although I understand and witnessed the consequences afterwards.

Generally anything from 0-10m where you have the drop on someone I would prefer it if people just shouted "bang" or something and it been deemed an act of cheating by the victim not to take the hit. However I understand adrenalin etc, but I saw a lot of face wounds as a result of close range.
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Dimori
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Post by Dimori » 18 Jul 2012, 15:15

HerrNilson wrote:Generally anything from 0-10m where you have the drop on someone I would prefer it if people just shouted "bang" or something and it been deemed an act of cheating by the victim not to take the hit. However I understand adrenalin etc, but I saw a lot of face wounds as a result of close range.
I'm against the bang rule unless you actually stand next to enemy, because I've witnessed many times where shots fired from 3 meters have been misses. Just because you are close to an enemy doesn't mean you have 100% chance of hitting him.
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