Feedback over all

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 12
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munkki
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Feedback over all

Post by munkki » 01 Jul 2014, 00:42

Didn't found feedback topic, so I made one. If there was already one, please delete this one.

I was personally playing as PMC Mech and it the fact, that Orlovs and Ravens were ally was really f***ed. Our time was spend 95% at our side of border, as these factions were way too strong and border crossings were chocking game really badly, at least for cars. If GM's see, than two most powerful factions are ally for each another, they should create asap some sort of op/rumors/orders to break it. As far as i heard, Orlov's were really bored as from there were so huge distance to PMC camp, what was only hostile place for most of the game. Also border kills a lot game area, at least it did in this game.

I also think, if you could move timing of Berget to next month, it would be better weather = peoples would not leave before game ends. Surely it would be harder for recons to play and peoples would use more water, but still.

Our team didn't had any PMC work, of course i understand, than you can't make that kind of stuff for all PMC players, but i didn't hear about any operation what would fit for description of PMC.

Firewood would be my last problem, it was really huge surprise, than we had to pay for firewoods. Yes, i understand, if some persons are doing huge bonfires, so you can't afford for those (those are anyway idiotic). I think, than this could be solved by giving us tickets at check in and we could pick up approx 20 firewoods for each.


- Mikko "munkki" Väisänen
B7 SRP
B8 Pold
B9 Firm/ NAF/ Zansian Black Ops
B10 Zansian "Black guard" Inf. Bat.
B11 SFODU
B12 PMC MECH
B13 GCT MECH

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Obi-San
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Obi-San » 01 Jul 2014, 08:23

Yeah...
I wanted to write a lot, but now its only - what a crap?!
You shoud do better, this time this was over the line shit.
B7 - Orlov Mercs
B8 - Civilian Field Intelligence
B9 - Home Support Team
B10 - Mountaineers Foreign Legion
B11 - SVR Spetsnaz
B12 - Power Ranger
B13 - SADF Paras
B14 - Shadow of the NAF
B15 - NAF infantry. All of it
B16 - UPIR shareholder

Helvetica
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Helvetica » 01 Jul 2014, 15:39

There were points, that werent good, for example, that the Orlovs and the ravens are that huge AND friends.

But i liked the Berget, the way it was (as a Member of the Guyana Boarderpatrol) but i also wish for the next year to have a situation, which is even at the beginning.

But really munkki, how CAN you claim about the weather? it was sunny 7/24, it rained twice... on Monday, 10 times about 5 minutes and on Friday i think, for about 1.5 hours... Of course it was cold at the night, but when playing i had never cold, and they told to bring a good sleeping bag...

if you want to make a fire, collect some wood in the forest, as we did... we had to collect many wood, because it burned really fast, but anyway..

I cant tell about the other Units, but we at the BoPo had a great time (which was most Fagge's work)

I had fun and I am looking forward to next year.

Helvetica
B12 - GCT Border Police, Swiss-OPs
B13 - GCT Infantry, 3rd Platoon, Swiss-OPs
B14 - NAF Infantry, Echo 1, Swiss-OPs
B15 - UPIR Heavy Weapons and Demolition Unit, Swiss-OPs
B16 - NAF Infantry, Alpha-03, Swiss-OPs, Platoonleader
B17 - 110:th Special Investigation Unit (hopefully)

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munkki
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by munkki » 01 Jul 2014, 22:10

Helvetica wrote:But really munkki, how CAN you claim about the weather?
As far as i remember i didn't claim, than weather would be bad... ...for me, but for some persons it might be issue, if it's +4 at night.

Also at least i didn't found any notification, than firewood would require money. If this would be informed before game, we would have own a) dry b) good size firewood with us.
B7 SRP
B8 Pold
B9 Firm/ NAF/ Zansian Black Ops
B10 Zansian "Black guard" Inf. Bat.
B11 SFODU
B12 PMC MECH
B13 GCT MECH

Askorbiini
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Askorbiini » 01 Jul 2014, 22:26

munkki wrote:
Helvetica wrote:But really munkki, how CAN you claim about the weather?
As far as i remember i didn't claim, than weather would be bad... ...for me, but for some persons it might be issue, if it's +4 at night.
TBH, being a person sleeping in a hammock through out the event, there just weren't that cold to start with. But I'm agreeing with my teammate in this, that for several players from central or southern Europe (or further) this can be the question of coming or staying home. As was seen at the start of the game, as our mech platoon was missing two (?) vehicles. (Could have been for different reasons, but still...)
munkki wrote:Also at least i didn't found any notification, than firewood would require money. If this would be informed before game, we would have own a) dry b) good size firewood with us.
And comparing to the previous years, there actually were firewood provided by BE. This time around, without any notification, you were supposed to pay 100 sek for a bag (ten pieces?) of wood. Next year I think that our guys won't take chances, and we'll bring our own firewood along with us.
B5 - Finnish Freedom Fighters
B6 - Separatist Reform Party
B10 - Zansian Black Guard
B11 - GCT Taskforce / SFODU
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B13 - GCT Mech
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B15 - NAF / FinBat Mech

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CyBear
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by CyBear » 02 Jul 2014, 00:21

As you read this, please keep in mind that this was my first airsoft event ever. I was a PMC medic in Crowbar-1-1.

The positives:
1. I saw action every day of the event.

2. Very easy access to toilets and water.

3. I patched up lots of friendly people who really appreciated it.

4. Got to know some good guys in UniSec, generally a bunch of really nice folks.


The negatives:
1. At check-in I did not receive the map I had paid for, nor any berget dollars. I put this at number 1 because it happened first and was part of my first impression. It would later turn out to be the very least of my gripes with the event.

2. A heads up about the decision to not have deatchcards would have been nice, just to keep us from wondering when and where they would show up.

3. A complete lack of base defense, which meant we were repeatedly caught with our pants down. At one point I just stopped giving a f**k and sat down with my deathrag and continued to eat my noodles.

4. Bad elements higher up in the command structure, see examples 1 and 2 below.

5. The cheating. *sigh* This is by far the most negative and depressing point on this list. I didn't really notice this until the large Raven attack that destroyed our base.
I got shot out pretty early in the battle and had ample time to just lay back and observe, and what I saw demoralized me greatly. I watched as three Ravens advanced and could see all of them getting hit repeatedly without taking their hits. I saw the same when I turned around and looked at a PMC shooting from the corner of a tent. Granted, he was hit by some ricochets, but most were clean hits.
I was on the verge of just packing my shit and leave the entire event. I mean, what is the point if so many cheat? It got even worse after the battle was over. One of the guys in my squad came back from having checked if there were more Ravens lying in wait out there. He had just found a fully loaded and unmarked high-cap magazine. He had given the mag to one of the GM's, but the GM apparently didn't understand the severity of the situation and just looked at it all confused before wandering off.
And then the medics... As a new player I was eager to do everything correctly and so I had a wristwatch attached to my vest, set to count down two minutes. I activated it each time I reached a patient, then applied a bandage and then kept the patient updated on how much time was left. I understand that this might have been a bit --- SPAM !!! ---, but it worked. On two of the occasions where I was healed myself, the medic simply put on a bandage and told med to go. It took about twenty seconds, at most.
Taking all this into consideration leaves me with a foul taste in my mouth and makes me wonder why. Why do people cheat? Why do they even play? Why should I bother playing?


Bad Command example 1:
My squad was at one point forgotten by command and so we spent a couple of hours at the border crossing, waiting for nothing basically. We finally got the order to move out and secure a toxic waste dump. As soon as we had moved out the border crossing was attacked by Ravens. This was obviously scripted. I bet the Ravens were frustrated by the presence of so many PMC at the border =)
Sadly, the toxic waste dump could not be secured as the phone on-site only worked until midnight. What is the point of having the game run until 3 in the morning if points can only be taken before midnight? More importantly; why wasn't Command aware of this? Luckily it ended well with us and some blues attacking the Ravens from the rear as we made our return over the border.

Bad Command example 2:
On another occation we had been told to go to a certain point on the map to support one of the other companies. It was a fair bit of walking and took some time as we had to stay off the road. After a while we noticed fighting up ahead. Friendly mech units were in a firefight with an unknown enemy. Very well, those might be the guys we were to support. As we were about to advance we got the counter-order over the radio; we were not supposed to have crossed the border and were to return to the border crossing immediatly. WTF?! And as we contemplated ignoring these orders we came under attack. By now some of our vehicles had been taken out or were retreating so we decided to do the same. That was a serious blow to the trust we had in our command...

Berget partly redeemed:
On friday night my squad and I participated in an unautorized mission that had us walking for nearly four hours before dying within 5 minutes of attacking the Raven base. But it was by far the most awesome moment of the entire event. This leads me to the conclusion that doing what Berget/Command wants you to do, is a bad thing. Still, even that most awesome operation was tainted. My teammates and I were killed by a Thunder B grenade which Berget officially had forbidden on the forum in advance of the event. I personally see no reason why these grenades should be banned, but as long as they are, using them is cheating in my book.

Conclusion:
So to sum it up; I am left with mixed feelings. IF I decide to give Berget another shot, I think I will go as PMC again, but not as a UniSec employee. A couple of buddies and I discussed it and we will try to play as independent PMC and let anyone who needs/wants to hire us do so, with no regards to any higher command. I still need more time to digest the experience before deciding if it was all worth the time and money.

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Obi-San
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Obi-San » 02 Jul 2014, 00:58

And then the medics... As a new player I was eager to do everything correctly.
Im sorry before Alecu and the romanian players for i thought that running with wounded forbitten, and its not.
Sorry lads!


And rangers. You should be learning how to shit in woods before doing so. Digging small hole and covering it is not as difficult as it sounds.
Last edited by Obi-San on 02 Jul 2014, 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
B7 - Orlov Mercs
B8 - Civilian Field Intelligence
B9 - Home Support Team
B10 - Mountaineers Foreign Legion
B11 - SVR Spetsnaz
B12 - Power Ranger
B13 - SADF Paras
B14 - Shadow of the NAF
B15 - NAF infantry. All of it
B16 - UPIR shareholder

Panzergraf
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Panzergraf » 02 Jul 2014, 03:20

For me, this was one of the better Bergets.
Some of the battles we fought, especially the Thursday afternoon mass invasion of Guyana and the Saturday last stand of the Ravens near the oil field, will join the ranks as some of my best airsoft experiences ever.
Much of what made this Berget an overall good experience is thanks to the 6mm crew who commanded the Ravens this year. They did a great job, as did the company and platoon commanders they had under them.
The main reason is my own team, Team Flecktarn. You guys are a blast to play with even at the worst of games.

Now, onto the bad stuff:
1 - Too many sides. As soon as the Berget 12 website was up back in October '13, I knew having more than two main factions would be a bad thing. It was a bad thing at Berget 6, and at Berget 7 too. Please, go back to having two main factions. Red VS Blue, Ravens VS GCT, or Poldavians VS NAF or whatever. Having small secondary factions like the UA17 and stuff is OK.

2 - Scripted events. This year, the Ravens did not have an official Mech unit, as far as Berget Events was concerned. We had mech, but we took our orders from Ravens HQ, not directly from BE. HQ got missions from BE, but at least they gave them to the units they thought most suitable for the task at hand. At B9 and 10 I was part of the Poldavian Mech Battalions, and we got our missions straight from BE. These often turned out to be pre-scripted ambushes, yay... :wank:
From what I hear, many of the missions other Raven units were tasked with ended up being pre-scripted like that too.
It sucks to be the ones who have to walk into what's obviously got to be an ambush, and I'm not sure if it's very fun having your prey served on a silver plate by BE either.
More free-play can potentially result in less action, but the reverse is also true. On Thursday, the ravens accomplished all missions early, and we sat around without anything to do for a great while. If missions weren't handed down by BE but rather set by Raven HQ, something would be planned. Give the commanders a framework to work within (ie. the in-game effect of tactical points) and a broad mission (ie. "keep the enemy from invading our side of the border") and just let the fun unfold itself.

3 - BAVS receivers. There were a lot of vehicles this year. A lot of really, really cool creations too, great looking armored vehicles with awesome looking turrets. Too bad playing against these was a pretty bad experience, as the BAVS receivers were impossible to hit from many angles. Killing the gunners was hard too, as they had a lot of cover.
Next time, have the Berget Crew members who mount BAVS receivers make sure they do so where they can be hit from all sides.

4 - The setting. Gameplay wise, this is irrelevant. However, immersion is a big part of airsoft.
Lerando is supposed to be in South America. First of all, the woods around Sollefteå do not look like South American jungles. By setting the game to, say, Eastern Europe, you set the stage for a much more immersive experience.
Then there's stuff that simply don't fit. Al-Kazzar - a muslim terrorist organization... in South America?
It's probably the least Muslim part of the world, almost everyone is Catholic. It would be hard for them to blend in.
Orlovs Mercs are supposed to be Russians, but I guess they have the resources to travel to the other side of the globe and set up camp there, so I'll let that one pass.
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
B16 - Upir Mech

M.Koho
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by M.Koho » 02 Jul 2014, 06:11

Wasn't the Al-Kazar invited into Lerando by mr. Rico?
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by M.Svensson » 02 Jul 2014, 11:39

And rangers. You should be learning how to shit in woods before doing so. Digging small hole and covering it is not as difficult as it sounds.
I heard about that from a friend being BoPo, that it was some group of GCT shitting everywhere in the forest, this made me really embarrassed and really angry too. However when my friend confronted the people they just answered with "It's our minefield!" and some laughs. Sadly I don't know which team it was or where their camp was or what armband number they had. I never got to see their "Toilet" or "Minefield" but from what I heard it was pretty bad...
And Alecu, medics running around with hit players is f*cking cheating and not transporting. But thats my IMHO, all the romanian ranger medics runned with hit players, so i guess thats fine for them. Same as using bangers(but this one they claimed to be authorised by BE).
I believe they would justify it by the "Moving after being hit" rule but yeah I get what you mean.
4 - The setting. Gameplay wise, this is irrelevant. However, immersion is a big part of airsoft.
Lerando is supposed to be in South America. First of all, the woods around Sollefteå do not look like South American jungles. By setting the game to, say, Eastern Europe, you set the stage for a much more immersive experience.
Then there's stuff that simply don't fit. Al-Kazzar - a muslim terrorist organization... in South America?
It's probably the least Muslim part of the world, almost everyone is Catholic. It would be hard for them to blend in.
Orlovs Mercs are supposed to be Russians, but I guess they have the resources to travel to the other side of the globe and set up camp there, so I'll let that one pass.
The only factions that weren't invited there by Rico to participate in the warlord summit was Civilians, GCT and BOPO.
Last edited by M.Svensson on 02 Jul 2014, 12:37, edited 3 times in total.
Berget 11 - GCT SFODU, GOLF
Berget 12 - GCT 9th SF infantry, ECHO
Berget 13 - GCT Special Parachute Infantry, ALPHA
Berget 14 - Military service C&C.
Berget 15 - Military service C&C.

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spin_t
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by spin_t » 02 Jul 2014, 12:28

Played as Raven mech this year,the missions we got ended up in f..ing the roads with no sense,so we started to act as recon vehicle managing during the game to prevent 3 surprise attacks .
Stupid things this year :

-too many factions
-opposite factions wearing same camo and differentiated only by armband
-looking at the map you understand we have used about 45 % of the area,the rest was just there for nobody
-basically most of the game was about attacking or defending the border crossing points wich made the game boring,with no interesting missions.

The game setup with GCT ,Rangers and what else was there concentrated in a such small area,with almost no ways to get into the rest of game area except storming the border points IMHO was a shit.
All ended up in a huge speedball game.
Compared with previous games,where the story and the factions was catching you to became part of the game,to feel the adrenaline and the connection to your faction,this year was just ...let's go out to throw some bb's
B 8 Poldavian 1-st Bat.
B 9 Poldavian 320th Art Comm
B10 Poldavian 15-th
B11 troop carrier betwen BRaven base and front line :)
B12 Raven Mech

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Sgt._Shaw
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Sgt._Shaw » 02 Jul 2014, 12:29

+1 on those medics running around with hit players.... when i was taken by a medic, i made sure he dragged me (well, i helped him of course with my feet), but i have seen those movements too...

And a medic just attaching a bandage and then taking off.... :twisted: good for those that i didn't see it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Yes i saw some players not taking their hit too... especially at the thursday assault on our PMC-Base.
Guys... i don't know what is going on in your heads doing such things as mentioned above. It just KILLS the fun of the game.

And i just want to thank that damn player that had killed an orlov car with a BAVS 40mm grenade holding in his hand at fisherman's hut... YES YOU WHERE CHEATING YOU *********! And also ruined the day for approx. 40 PMC players. Big thanks man! :twisted: If i knew that on site you would have had to walk all the way back home!

+1 on your "please just two big factions" statement Panzergraf.

And for PMC it was just annoying having Ravens and Orlov against us pretty from the beginning. Also the missions from BE didn't made it any better.




Now some good stuff:
-Toilets and Water supply was good at PMC-Base (although it would have been great if the Toilets would have been there early on Tuesday).
-GM's where pretty fast on-site if we reported any cheating or problems with the BAVS and solved it right away.
-All the players just made the event a blast, even if the gameplay itself wasn't that great compared to the last ones. thanks guys!
-Thanks to Trouble, our "non-BE"-mission to the fishermans hut whent not THAT bad (although it was screwed by the action of ONE player as mentioned above), especially the escape from the blocking of the orlov MECH was nice :D just drove away :lol:.
-I REALLY had a blast on the final oilfield attack on Saturday! We drove all the way back to the Border with the BV-206 and came in from the back to finish off all the Ravens together with the Orlovs... that was on HELL of a fight! :P
-Well and i had quite a fun time blowing up some Ravens and Orlovs with some arty! BOOOOM and some cars plus infantry whent to hell! I don't know my arty-kill-count, but it must be somewhere around 7 cars and 20-40 infantry. :P

So, all-in-all the gamplay was like... well not that great, but all the great people made it still an awesome time!
See you next year!

:team:
Berget 10: NAF 2nd Mech- Scout/Bv 206-Crew (Odin coy)
Berget 11: GCT Mechanized, Direwolf 1 - RATELO (D-1-2)
Berget 12: PMC Mechanized, Lockpick, Bv-206 RATELO and 2IC
Berget 13: GCT Mechanized, Lockpick-Coy: 2IC and RATELO
Berget 15: UPIR Heavy Mechanized, PBV Mech-Inf, AT and 2IC

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spin_t
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by spin_t » 02 Jul 2014, 12:45

Really that last day setup with everybody against Ravens was such a pathetic attempt from BC to redeem hemselfe from a whole unbalanced game.
More then this,we had intel about Orlov's guys changing the sides,about the GCT crossing the border north ,even that the other 8-9 GCT vehicles will link up the attack at 14:00 in oilfield area,but the Raven commander decided to just ignore all and not take any actions then moving all people to oilfield,not somehow the planned massacre to fail :))))
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B 9 Poldavian 320th Art Comm
B10 Poldavian 15-th
B11 troop carrier betwen BRaven base and front line :)
B12 Raven Mech

Helvetica
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by Helvetica » 02 Jul 2014, 13:33

munkki wrote:
Helvetica wrote:But really munkki, how CAN you claim about the weather?
As far as i remember i didn't claim, than weather would be bad... ...for me, but for some persons it might be issue, if it's +4 at night.

Also at least i didn't found any notification, than firewood would require money. If this would be informed before game, we would have own a) dry b) good size firewood with us.

" it would be better weather" its what you said. But i can agree with you, that it may be more fun for some people, when it is not that cold at night... But as long as it wasnt raining, i had no problems.

And i can also understand your point, about the lack of information, that we have to pay for good firewood.... we had the luck to be surroundet by many of fallen trees, that we could burn.

To the cheating point, we had a long talk with our commander and he told us, the cheating is pretty bad this year. He went to the BE HQ every Day with a list of cheating players, and berget sent more GMs ingame, when there was a huge fight. But especially Russian, Italian and "eastern"European guys took their Hits very bad (not all of them!) We fired with 3 MGs, over 20 meters, and the 3 players there, didnt gave a single hit...just for example. Or the Situation, where some of the ravens vehicles, just didnt activate their BAV-System...

Yeah and as a medic, i also had e watch, and told the players, how long it does take... and when i see a medic running, and 2 meters behind him, a hit guy also running, i just can facepalm... its ok to carry a woundet for one or two meters, but at least pull him.. and not just let him follow him... i hope for next year, there are less cheating players!
B12 - GCT Border Police, Swiss-OPs
B13 - GCT Infantry, 3rd Platoon, Swiss-OPs
B14 - NAF Infantry, Echo 1, Swiss-OPs
B15 - UPIR Heavy Weapons and Demolition Unit, Swiss-OPs
B16 - NAF Infantry, Alpha-03, Swiss-OPs, Platoonleader
B17 - 110:th Special Investigation Unit (hopefully)

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aidynskas
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Re: Feedback over all

Post by aidynskas » 02 Jul 2014, 14:53

Helvetica wrote: with a list of cheating players, and berget sent more GMs ingame, when there was a huge fight. But especially Russian, Italian and "eastern"European guys took their Hits very bad (not all of them!)
Yes, and also black people, jews, gipsies and gay people. Not all of them! <= sarcasm

Bro, seriously...
B8: Poldavian 5th Infantry
B9: Poldavian 3rd
B10: NAF 9th
B11: GCT
B12: GCT
B13: Cerberus

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