Debriefing Berget 13.

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 13
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B2fox
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Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by B2fox » 28 Jun 2015, 20:50

Holy f¤@# !
That was over, even before it began. :shock:
Berget 13 have been the conclution of six months of hard work, for team IIP.
Now back in Denmark, washed, cleand and rested, I'm sitting in the sun, with a cold beer, thinking back.
And I miss it allready :(
But here we go...

First of all
We need to say THANK YOU, to the mechanized Norwegian team, that helped us out with not only tools, but also provided nice hard rock/metal music, when we had a break down, on friday night.
You guys were fucking AWSOME !
I dont't know your team name, but send me a PM, so we can meet up next time for a beer (or more, before game start )

The area.
Härnösand is the coolest place I have ever played airsoft in.
The terrain is awsome, views are at times stunning (Fo Danes livving in a FLAT contry) and the proximity to Härnösand makes it easy to stock up, on the things, you have forgotten, og suddently need.

Logistics
As allways spot on.
Clean toilets, water, and the ability to wash hands, at base, never failed :-)

Krasnovo & Civilians
This only beeing my third Berget, I must say, that I were impressed.
I really hope the LARPers had fun.
They were awsome ! It felt like beeing in a real town, with real issues, made it a blast :)
By the way, I have an invitation for the local bikers of Krasnovo, to attend to the 30'th anniversary of RFMC
R
Gameplay
A lot more fun this year, with the blue team, even hitting our base a few times.
But the number of players per side and units seriously need to be controlled a lot better !
We were a police force of some 110, "protecting" the 30'ish civilians. :?
That meant a lot of guys sitting on their ass, doing nothing, just wating for the smallest unrest, or having to create their own missions.

BAVS
Still no external indication, telling if the reciever is on.
That was a major issue last year (Link) and the promissed fix, were not imeplemented this year, so the problem remains.

Tanks
Although mailing with BE crew, for more than three months, it looked like arrival of a tank, came compleetly as a surprise.
No one could tell us, where we could drive, and no BAVS transmitter/gun existed. :evil:
But after a lot of asking, and probably pissing off our commander (chain of command you know) we were allowed to at least drive on the roads.
And after proving that the tank would not tear Sweden in half when turning, we were cleared to go where we wanted. This last bit is fully understandable, when we saw the tracks left by, the other tracked vehicle.
On friday noon, a BAVS canon were fitted, after an impressive devoplement job, by the BAVS team. They worked their ass of, from the second they were told about a class 5 tank, on site.

Conclution
We had fun.
We will be back.
But BE crew need to get their communication on track ! Emails not answered, and the lack of internal communication, is highly discouraging.
But this beeing said, I'm deeply impressed with the ability to get the job done, on site.

SEE YOU ALL NEXT YEAR
:tank:
Nikolaj "B2" Poulsen - Team ILD I PIBEN

http://www.ildipiben.com
-----------------------------
B11 & B12: Ravens
B13: IKAROS Tank driver/Platoon leader
B14: NAF Delta
B15 & B16: Mercenaries "IIP Services"
B17: Bandits aka Local hunter

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Jakobsson » 28 Jun 2015, 22:06

The area.
Very beautiful.
Maybe good for inf, but not for mech. To much driving offgame, to much offgame areas ingame.
Civilian cars parked on the ingame parking.. NOT ok!

Logistics
Not good.
One time the toilets where cleaned, only cold water in the showers.

Krasnovo & Civilians
The town was a joke, some off the old houses where ok, but the new ones? NO.

Gameplay
Where was the red team? Not on the map..
They where only in for combat when attacking the red base.

BAVS
To fast reload time!
No indicator when launched, led flash? Sound? Something would be nice, now they are overkill!

GM
Did the fighting for the blue team!
There are other ways to balance the teams.
And please dont punish the ones following the orders, punish the one doing the call.



Did we get Value for our money? NO! Berget crew did not do they homework after last year.
If the cost was 40 Euro? Maybe, but 120 Euro? This have to improve!
Operation crossroads 2007
Berget 12: PMC Mech
Berget 13: Ikaros, Hermes QRF

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Jack Scarecrow » 28 Jun 2015, 23:59

The area:
It was nice. Liked the paths and the woods were easy to walk around into. Atleast from our side of the game. The GCT side with the mountain seemed like a bit of a problem for ground troops wanting to walk from there....

Logistics:
Very good i would say. Toilets close by unlike last year, water was good. Was even able to get a warm shower but the GCT had it alot worse..... Alot of tents on our side tho and some people even blocking the paths that were supposed to be keept open.

Krasnovo & Civilians:
I think the town was fine. The 50 new houses that were promised were clearly not there and most of the houses out in the woods were very bad and no one wanted to use those.
Civilians were great:) I tried my best to make sure they got a bit more freedom and got into several arguments about letting the taxi drivers and others be able to leave the city but didn´t do that well :P . Probably should of been a bit more brave and actually try to order people to do as i say!
Ofc the civilians should be able to leave and come to their own city as they please!
But one thing i keept wondering, if GCT were the ''good guys'' why did they keep bombing the living **** out of the town all the time? Seemed like an odd thing to bomb the place where they know the civilians are and claim they are trying to ''save'' them.... GCT were clearly the bad guys here! :P
Ikaros shouldn´t have had a spawn inside of the Krasnovo. It´s just too hard for GCT to take over a point when the enemy spawns right on it even when it´s under attack.

Gameplay:
I think it was kinda uneven with the players and also all the cars even if the blues did have access to helicopters and could be dropped of anywhere on the map. Was like that last year too. Perhaps berget can try check into the people with ingame cars and see what camo they use and try balance it out a bit more.
I know how it feels to get run over by the enemy and it really isn´t fun and more and more people are either going to stop coming to berget or will try join the ''winning'' side making it even more unbalanced.
The town should have been more neutral and there were actually blue players trying to peacefully enter it to larp but instead only got shot on sight by Ikaros. We even got shot down when they were driving me back and we had a white flag up. That was bad! People should stop being so trigger happy :evil:
So less looking at the flags/armband colour and more looking at the actual situation. Sure you can still search them and be suspicious but still let them in and hear what they have to say.

GM:
Still dissapointed that the enemy team did not get the information about me and therefor had no idea who and what i was.
Probably should have gone with my orginal plan to give it to friends in GCT to make sure they deliver it to their commanders on the right time. Also sent 1 copy of it with a GCT guy but it seems it got lost aswell....
Or perhaps it did reach their commander and he just decided to ignore it completly instead of telling psy ops or the soldiers.
I did not get any missions but i was fine making my own so i don´t really mind that at all. The truth serum i got no information about how to make so i just guessed it simply didn´t exist but according to psy ops they had heard it did exist....

(My personal story you wont have to read):
But overall the game was fun:) Wish i had given my phone number to people in the base so they could contact me when they had test subjects for me but well i managed to get 9 people to play with. I would have prefered to get a better door for my house and a proper table..... :wink:
I let most of my prisoners go alive and even made sure they got delivered all way back to their base (ain´t i nice :P ), We also had a traitor in our team that i saved from getting executed and he turned into my personal bodyguard.
Used one blue guy to get me right tru GCT guard positions all way up to their base and no one even bother to stop us and ask why he is escorting a weird looking guy with a suitcase towards their base..... But those guys actually played the way i like and not just looking at the armband colour. Even when i was clearly wearing a red armband the guy i was walking with said ''we are blue'' and the guards were just like ''okay'' and let us pass. That was so fun :D

I do kinda hope we play the same map next year since the town is there and it´s the best place for civilians to be playing.

For now Dr. Black is still on the loose and perhaps GCT will be able to find him another time!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
B12: Border Police - Lonely Medic/Spy.
B13: Hades Police - Dr. Black.
B14: UPIR - Dr. Black and Reaper.
B15: UPIR Psy-Ops. Prison Warden.

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Switchback » 29 Jun 2015, 01:34

So this is my first berget, and it personally did not go great for me (Sappers got crap missions that ended in us dying or guarding an empty road) so I'm probably biased. Oh well.

The Area:

Beautiful. As a mech person said ingame, the area was less suited for mech, but otherwise pretty nice. Krasnovo was a bit lackluster from what little I saw (I didn't even get to the city for more than 5 seconds before being shot :\)

Logistics:
From what I could tell from the GCT base, Logistics where pretty hit or miss. The Meal service was for the most part very tasty (Breakfast was lackluster), and the little food truck was always nice to have. Only having cold water was a bit meh, washing hands at 3AM to remove contact lenses always ended with VERY cold hands. Toilets where ok I guess, pretty standard stuff.

Krasnovo/Civilians:
Didn't see it / Didn't get a chance to interact with them. However, I don't believe that Civilian LARPers should be forced to pay full price for the game. They are doing the rest of us a service by playing, and I really believe that if they want more civilians/LARP Personnel they should have a discounted price for civilians.

Gameplay:
So there where a lot of rumors/unconfirmed facts about the game balance. I heard the GCT Had 14 vehicles total (including ATVs) while the Icarus mech had 60. Another number that was thrown around was 49. Either way. Good job on the balance front. BAVS was also a problem because it seemed that Icarus had all of them (I was told 80%) which meant we couldn't destroy their endless supply of vehicles.

Then there was the command problems GCT seemed to have an endless supply of. Psy-Ops was stuffed under 1st inf and I was told they pretty much got no command support at all. It also seemed that first platoon of sappers got all the toys (AT4s, the BAVS mines, etc) as well as priority for the missions. On the second day 2nd platoon was an afterthought on a mission to guard the rear of first platoon blowing a road. (We ended up guarding an empty road. Real fun stuff) Some assets never got distributed (Psy-Ops never got their truth serum) and Para-inf turned into regular infantry operating out of the main GCT Base.

All this being said, some of the mid-level command (Sappers 2nd Plat leader), Mech main command, some airborne guys, tried their hardest to just go forward with raids and such. Generally on the command front however, it didn't seem like any of the forces where working together at all to accomplish things. This segmentation helped lead us to being completely steamrolled during the day.

Overall

Honestly, while my game time was pretty lackluster, I had a blast of the time, made a lot of new friends, and generally got a good vibe from the event. Yes there are kinks, some are more serious than others (Mech balance) but overall the event is fun. I just hope that if I go next year I will be able to be in the city for more than 5 seconds before being hit.
B13: GCT 1st Infantry, Sappers and Engineers [Sierra 3]
B15: UPIR PsyOps
B16: NAF Mechanized [Golf 1]

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by olaman » 29 Jun 2015, 01:34

Dr. Black?
What was your part in this?
Check out my new gearblog!
www.thenorsemansgear.com

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by HerrNilson » 29 Jun 2015, 09:22

Distribution of BAVs were an issue. I had one but it seemed like I was maybe the only guy in Para that did.

As I said during the event, it was nice to feel so needed. However my BAV was provided to me switched off, thanks to ACE for fixing it, but it was a frustrating first 24hrs not understanding why the thing didn't work.

If one team has 49 or 60 trucks, as a way to balance it out it would have made sense to provide additional BAVs to the opposing team. Probably would have made it more fun for all.

I had fun, battles were often a slaughter due to the numbers involved. But the banter was good and it sort of
Overcame most frustrations. But the balance needs to be fixed as a priority for next year, last year I was PMC and it was a similar --- SPAM !!! --- up with balance (we're airsofters and just because were the side that looks like he US doesn't mean we have the skill or discipline of them).

Thanks to the More Cowbell guys, really fun just like last year, the Greeks and the Isreali guys for the beautiful human shield you created around me (Bearded BAVs guy)
Berget 10 - Pol 3 MNT 3 Coy
Berget 11 - GCT SIDU
Berget 12 - PMC Hatchet 1-1
Berget 13 - Para Inf Alpha 3 (BAVS)
Berget 14 - Alpha Company - Alpha 1-0
Berget 15 - Pathfinders
Berget 16 - NAF HQ 2IC

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Arradin » 29 Jun 2015, 11:17

This will be a general Debrief, a more detailed Civilian debrief will be posted in a seperate thread, per request from Berget Crew ( and to spare your eyes a wall of text that you may or may not be interrested in )

First of all

A **HUGE** Thank you to all people who got in contact with us civilians this game, and a even bigger thank you to the other Civilians reading this. This berget was overwhelming when it comes to Support, items provided and the general attitude towards LARP and Civilians. The best Berget game i´ve been to so far, the others dont even come close.

The Area:

The town, as a whole, is amazing. It brings a layer to the game that no other area can provide at the moment, and i hold all thumbs i have and a couple of extras, that we will be here next year aswell.
The buildings need work, But i know that will happen. We need more buildings ( a checkpoint with a gate that can be opened ), etc, but im sure it will be improved for next year.
The only problem with this area as i see it, is that the road network is horrible.

Logistics:

We had plenty of Fresh water and plenty of toilets in the town, and had the Safezone closeby for the rest.
The ONLY thing i can complain about here, is that food should be delivered to the town ( breakfast etc ) since all Civilians actually lived in the houses, and its not a detour at all , since food was delivered to for example GCT base, on the way.

Krasnovo/Civilians:

Detailed post about this in a seperate Civilian feedback thread, but all-in-all, a great concept and i had ALOT of fun thruout the entire game.

Gameplay:

As a Civilian, there is not much for me to write here that non-Civilians will understand.
I personally felt that i was a big part of the game as a whole, i always felt included, there were always the threat of the town being attacked ( and oh how much it was... How many times didnt i have to duck and run for cover. Amazing! )

GM

We always had a minimum of one GM to our disposal in the town, so A+++
The Crew puts insane amount of hours and effort into the game for us, and being with them to help prior to the game gave light to the effort it actually takes to make this work. hats off to you.

Cheating/Attitude

When playing a LARP lore, you got to be ready for the fact that MANY many players couldnt care less about LARPers and Civilians or anything that is not a part of shooting and killing others at all costs.

BUT, with that being said.. WOW. I interracted with HUNDREDS of players, and must have ran into atleast a thousand players during the course of the game... and i only had TWO different incidents where players 'cheated' or just were complete asshats.
1) A group of idiots that didnt respect the "locked door" ( Red cross , need engineer ) rule and were Extremly rude when we pointed it out, and was even close to physical violence. We walked away and let the kids do thier thing.
2) Fighting in town in the middle of the night even though it was off-game 03,00-09,00 . Civilians were sleeping in the town, and we were ONLY able to get any sleep during that time. No big deal, nothing that destroyed the game for us.

In general, i was shocked at the amount of respect for the LARpers and the LARP 'rules' , and the amount of "regular" players that interracted with LARpers makes me absolutely sure that players WANT this LARP concept in Berget Games, and if we expand the town and civilians further, this WILL be a winning concept.


Conclution:

Best Berget game i have attended.
Why does it have to be a full year until next game?
You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by madsvg » 29 Jun 2015, 13:11

Thank you everyone for once again making Berget a fun experience.
I was a part of Ikaros Mechanized, Hermes 3.
I'll try to keep this short and in general give my impression of this game compared to earlier years, and hopefully give an insight into how we experienced the game.

The Area

This being my 4th time playing in Härnösand, it was what I expected, with great access to civilian facilities if needed.
The area is very clearly a Inf focused map with some amazing areas for fights.
It's less practical for Mech, and especially when our connection to the offgame roads were down almost half the game.
The drive through the town makes for a very bumpy and tedious drive.

Logistics

I think this was the logistically best Berget I've ever been to. The fact that the toilets were washed daily was a major bonus. Oh, and the pizza-company that drove in to camp to take orders needs a huge clap, that was a huge moralebooster.

The Town/Civilians

As mechanized we were either dead or on a mission, and the few times we experienced the civilians/town we were just passing through. I have to divert to other companies for the impressions from this area. That said though; the town wasn't 600x600m as stated, and I only noticed 2-3 completely new buildings compared to the last berget that took place here.

Gameplay

GCT: I've never experienced fewer cheaters at a berget than this year. I heard stories of people not taking hits, but I never ran into anyone myself. Everyone I fired at either took their hits or it was in such a situation that being able to 100% confirm hits was hopelessly impossible. I always had great fights with you guys and for a side that's getting completely dominated (from my POV) you guys never gave up. Kudos.

Ikaros: Our infantry was beastly. Even after days of footslugging and with somewhat low morale after GM involvement (more on this later), you still ran into battle, you gave everything and made life as a Mechanized very eazy.

That was basicly the good stuff I have to say about berget this year. Now for the other parts.

Comments to others

As far as I know, we had around 40 vehicles, most of these did not have turrets and were just used as troop transports. We in Hermes 3 numbered at 6 vehicles where 4 had turrets. I also know that the other norwegian company and Thor company had several vehicles. #OilMoney.
Unfortunatelly for the side that faces us norwegians, you will almost always have fewer vehicles, this is down to how cheaply we are able to buy surplus military vehicles.
In addition, several BAVS systems are privatly owned or rented, so we have easy access.

I do however agree on the fact that Berget should do something to balance out the discrepancy between the sides when it comes to bavs etc. They did implement some things, but it worked horribly, more on that later.

It does suck that GCT had such a horrible command. As a commander it's your job to make sure everyone have something to do or a viable mission to go for. Maybe Berget should have a "just in case" plan ready so that the side that's struggling would get help setting up missions etc? At least something so that the players get something to do and don't feel left out/overlooked?

Jakobsson: I don't know what you did on berget, but as a mech (which during day 2 went for a recontrip) we met Ikaros players everywhere, you might have been at the wrong place?


The Bad Stuff

One of the HUGE faults of this Berget was the involvement of the GM's.
Day 1: We were told to withdraw all out troops from the map, so as to let GCT take some areas.
Day 2: We were allowed to attack the GCT camp, provided that BE was allowed to notify GCT first (fair enough, makes for a much better fight). Then our Inf walked out at 07.00 to get to the GCT camp by 09.00. What met them there was a line of GM's with fireworks. Several of them never got to even see enemy forces that morning. They were taken out by GM's long before they made contact. This was a huge hit to morale for some of them.
That, as well as overhearing GM's that placed down his firework, then pick it up again saying: "Need at least 10".

After that we started fearing GM's MUCH more than GCT. We actually loved engaging GCT, they were fair and really great at using the terrain to their advantage.

GM's kinda ruined the game for me this year. We had random airstrikes against our base when we prepared to leave all the time. I'm pretty sure that we were taken out by GM's more than we were taken out by GCT, which is a huge shame.

As for the "balancing" of vehicles that Berget did; it consisted of gm's walking around with handheld BAVS and randomly destroying our vehicles when we made contact.

Rant ended.

Conclusion

Berget was very scripted this year, and I for one think that was a huge shame. Sure, Ikaros were the Badguys, but don't just randomly nuke a base to keep vehicles and players out of comission for a short time. It tears at the morale of all the players. If you want to "balance" the game by nuking, give it to the enemy commander instead and let them control it. We were never nuked right before GCT attacked our base.

However, from a player standpoint I have to go back to B8 to find a berget where I had more fun. My gear worked, the weather was great, our company was awesome and the fights we had with GCT were hardfought and briliant as long as the GM's weren't involved.

I'll probably come back next year as well regardless, as I had enough of those "Berget Moments" that keeps me revisiting this game.
Berget 7 - NATO 1st Platoon
Berget 8 - NATO 2nd Platoon
Berget 9 - Poldovia 5th Infantry
Berget 10 - Poldovia 5th Infanty Recon Squad
Berget 11 - Ravens Guerilla
Berget 13 - Ikaros Mechanized, Hermes 3, Balder 4
Berget 16 - NAF Rangers, Bravo 2

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by L4gi » 29 Jun 2015, 13:20

madsvg wrote:The Bad Stuff

One of the HUGE faults of this Berget was the involvement of the GM's.
Day 1: We were told to withdraw all out troops from the map, so as to let GCT take some areas.
Day 2: We were allowed to attack the GCT camp, provided that BE was allowed to notify GCT first (fair enough, makes for a much better fight). Then our Inf walked out at 07.00 to get to the GCT camp by 09.00. What met them there was a line of GM's with fireworks. Several of them never got to even see enemy forces that morning. They were taken out by GM's long before they made contact. This was a huge hit to morale for some of them.
That, as well as overhearing GM's that placed down his firework, then pick it up again saying: "Need at least 10".

After that we started fearing GM's MUCH more than GCT. We actually loved engaging GCT, they were fair and really great at using the terrain to their advantage.

GM's kinda ruined the game for me this year. We had random airstrikes against our base when we prepared to leave all the time. I'm pretty sure that we were taken out by GM's more than we were taken out by GCT, which is a huge shame.

As for the "balancing" of vehicles that Berget did; it consisted of gm's walking around with handheld BAVS and randomly destroying our vehicles when we made contact.

Rant ended.

Jesus... Its really nice hearing about this after the game. Personally had no fucking clue that they did random airstrikes or walked around with the BAVS systems like that. Balancing needs to be done before the damn game starts(preferrably at ticket sales point), not as a last ditch effort to salvage something...
B7 / B8 / B9 / B10 / B11 / B12 / B13 / B14 / B15 / B16 / B17

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by M.Svensson » 29 Jun 2015, 14:29

Sucks to hear that GMs were bombing you guys...
This berget is the best I've been at so far even though being outnumbered.EDIT: (Outnumbered again I should say :D - -)
Last edited by M.Svensson on 29 Jun 2015, 22:23, edited 1 time in total.
Berget 11 - GCT SFODU, GOLF
Berget 12 - GCT 9th SF infantry, ECHO
Berget 13 - GCT Special Parachute Infantry, ALPHA

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Panzergraf » 29 Jun 2015, 14:58

I was going to write a really long post, but it would just echo what madsvg said.

I had a good time at Berget this year, as always, but this time it really felt like the Game Masters didn't want me to.
I was part of Ikaros Mechanized, Balder Platoon, just like Mads, and we were taken out by GM arty more often than by GCT players.

Back in the day, I used to like arty. Some times you would get taken out, but if you got down into cover in time you would usually survive, and the fireworks added to the experience and made larger firefights more immersive, which is what airsoft is all about, IMHO.
This year I don't think anyone, red or blue, felt like artillery added anything positive to the experience at all. I have lost count of how many times our vehicle got BAVS'ed out by GM arty in our base when preparing to leave for a mission. There was no serious GCT attacks incoming, just random arty strikes. What the hell is the point of that? Whose experience does that shit improve?
I don't mind getting taken out in a fight, and I have purposely made my car (an ex-mil G-wagon) so that it's not invulnerable. It has a simple shield in front of the gun rather than a fully enclosed turret, as I don't feel the latter is any fun to play against. But at the very least I would like to leave the base before getting offed!


On a more positive note, I saw very little cheating this year, and all players, red and blue, that I met in game were courteous and friendly.

Some on my side did complain about GCT players not taking hits and blue vehicles driving with their receivers turned off, but I didn't see it.
I wish more people would give their opponents the benefit of doubt before whining about cheating. Some times you just miss, and some times a BAVS receiver or launcher simply doesn't work right.

Props to the GCT players who stayed in game until the end though! I hope to see you guys again next year :)
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
B17 - Red Mech

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by PATU » 29 Jun 2015, 15:02

Jakobsson wrote:
GM
Did the fighting for the blue team!
There are other ways to balance the teams.
And please dont punish the ones following the orders, punish the one doing the call.
HerrNilson wrote:
If one team has 49 or 60 trucks, as a way to balance it out it would have made sense to provide additional BAVs to the opposing team. Probably would have made it more fun for all.
madsvg wrote:
GM's kinda ruined the game for me this year. We had random airstrikes against our base when we prepared to leave all the time. I'm pretty sure that we were taken out by GM's more than we were taken out by GCT, which is a huge shame.

As for the "balancing" of vehicles that Berget did; it consisted of gm's walking around with handheld BAVS and randomly destroying our vehicles when we made contact.

You guys took the words out of my mouth!

From the second game day on it seemed that the Ikaros vs. GCT was changed to Ikaros vs. GM's...We were playing on the Ikaros, and our truck got destroyed three times during the game. Two of which it was destroyed by game masters... Doesn't sound that right to me.

I fully agree the point that GCT was way too unbalanced regarding the BAVS-units and vehicles, but there should've been another way to balance the game than GM's bombing the living shit out of everything! At least when this balance problem mostly was caused by Berget Events itself in the booking phase already.

It was nice to watch a couple of GM's to hop onto their ATV and start blazing through the paths when we started our truck and started heading to Krasnovo. All this so they could be ready for us in the other end and just airstrike our vehicles and infantry units in the city. Nice.

I remember us having maybe three short contacts with GCT units, where we were somewhat able to engage them with our mounted MG, so I wouldn't say we were raping the enemy that much. Two of these so called contacts also ended quickly because of the reasons mentioned above.

Otherwise the game was brilliant. This was my first Berget, and also my first with a vehicle. As mentioned, the logistics and game area were great from my point of view. We also had some very great company and made good friends around there. Special thanks to you Danish guys with the tank. You had a great game spirit out there! And thank you for the patches! I didn't get to say thanks in the game.

P.S. My apologies for you GCT guys from Turku driving the Monkey Wrench pick-up. Didn't mean to hit your vehicle down on the road heading to Krasnovo. Heard that there were no casualties. :)
Berget 13: Ikaros, Hades Police & Interrogation
Berget 14: NAF Mechanized

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Demonic » 29 Jun 2015, 15:24

Allright, here comes some different information, more specifically about one incident.

We were playing in Thor (Icaros) and we were frequently killed by GM, more so than by GCT. We ran in with a couple of people who were using some sort of super AEG that could fire full auto and at 70m went by your head with a great noise and hitting a tree behind you. And still makes a severe impact on the tree.
A vehicle had a machinegun mounted that dented our windshield badly. Reported to GM but no further information on the violation has been presented.

Then to the most unfair ruling of Berget: One player gets banned and two others walk away with a warning (despite them receiving previous warnings [this is unconfirmed]).

We had some car issues, and went from the town down towards the offgame road (with a big house and a paddock). We parked in the offgame area to take a look at our brakes which wasn't working at all.
With the hood open, no weapons on us (except for one guy who had it on a sling on his side) 3 GCT Helicopters rolled in. We noted them but didn't care since we were off game. Then a couple of guys ran out off the forest (past an offgame sign) and started blasting us with bullets. We were parked so that they were firing past us towards the house. We waved and shouted extremly loudly to make them stop. They did, but only after one specific player with a Machinegun had blasted around 100 bullets at us (the other were shooting as well, but he stood out). Skytt and Rastaman went up to him, Rastaman wanted to get his ticket ID which was partially hidden since his band was twisted so the numbers were facing backwards/towards his body. Skytt moves up to take a picture and gets pushed hard in the chest by a second player.
Rastaman responds by grabbing the player and with a sweeping move with his leg puts the player on the ground.
After this it's a little bit unsure, but footage shown says that Rastaman slapped or pushed a player on the head, and one player shoves a gun in Rastamans face before they can be separated.
A blue trustee takes Rastamans armband number, then GCT moves on and (supposedly) attacks the Civ Town. All blue players walks away fine.

From 13.00 to 20.00 (approximately) THOR stays in the base waiting for a verdict. As of writing moment Rastaman is banned for atleast another year, while the two other players involved got off with a warning. They were also allowed to complete this years Berget, Rastaman was not.

Rastaman agrees to the fact that force is unnecessary and accepts that he should not finish the event. However, letting the party that started the fight, fired in an off-game area near real civilians, children and animals go unpunished is hardly anything that puts Berget in a positive position.

Thor Company BAWsed off friday night and handed back both player IDnumber and the Bergetbracelet to Berget Crew.

-----

Apart from this incident Berget was worthless this year with everything scripted for the Red team. The most resistance we faced was Berget crew BAWsing cars and dropping artillery.

Toilets in Base was cleaned once in 4 days.

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Metatrone » 29 Jun 2015, 15:55

My first participation at Berget left me with mixed feelings. Having participated in a number of other relatively "big" games, I had high hopes for Berget 13, but had also done my homework by going trough what had taken place during previous Berget-games.

So here goes (long post)...

The check-in and pre-game preparations at base (Thuesday/Wednesday)
I found that the whole process of checking in and chroning went smooth and quick. I think that my whole team had it done in about 20 minutes.

Arrival at GCT-base left room for some confusion regarding where to sleep, none seemed to be really in charge, or know, or to be found. Some tents were "reserved" for certain people (not ingame batallions or companies, but individuals or groups of them) which caused a feeling of "first come, first served" when it came to empty slots to sleep. A POC would have been nice.

Playing as GCT-Infantry [and this is totally biased and from my perspective. I will assume that other have an other perspective, and perhaps also explanations], I found that Wednesday was a complete waste of time regarding team-preparations for the game since the impression was that almost nothing was done. Radiofrequencies and communication seemed to be disorganized once the game begun with no clear idea of which platoons had which channel, resulting in people/platoons just "grabbing" a channel. It was difficult to get a hold of the different teams, and platoon-leaders was missing in two out of five platoons when the game begun. Even if the Bat.CO and XO could have been more open about this prior to the game so did I get the impression that people/players wasn´t making it any easier for them to get that sorted out in base. Still, one cussed several times during Wednesday/Thursday night wondering why some important s**t hadn´t been sorted out during the day.

The Gamearea
Wonderful scenery. Lots of rocks and climbing. Never got any further than CP 10, CP 11 and the Fishing Hole for the entire game, so I cant say much about the rest of the 7/10 of the game-area. But the mountain was nice. Had alot of rocks. Had the oppertunity to observe it closely several times a day while climbing up to CP 10 or 11 before getting mowed down by Ikaros-Inf and forced to RTB.

Logistics
This I found to be good. There was always water at the base. There was a good number of toilets and I was positively surprised to find that they were emptied/cleaned each day, or every second day. The kiosk had what one could expect and nothing to complain about really. A positive suggestion could be to increase the openinghours. And the close vicinity to the city made supply-runs easy.

Did only visit main-safe twice during the game, but I liked that arrangement.

Krasnovo & Civilians
What's that now? For me and my squad Krasnovo could have been Eldorado. Never even came close to the town and dont have a clue of how it looked like. Looking forward seeing pictures from it however.

The only civilians I did see were those to came by GCT-base. But as someone else said, I believe that the ticket-price for those playing as civilians and LARP:ing ought to be reduced.

Gameplay
Reading that even Ikaros felt and experienced the game to be unbalanced, and giving props to GCT staying the course, says quite alot. :/

During Wednesday, Thursday and Friday I felt like target-practice for Ikaros. A trainingforce with the purpose of providing the players in Ikaros with something to shoot at. That was not fun. Seriously.

My impression was that GCT-Inf.Platoons went out only to get butchered, over and over. Atleast that how the game was for my platoon. Perhaps I am painting a very dark picture, and I am sure that people will disagree with what Im saying. But the feeling was that the platoons operated almost alone and without coordination, especially as the game progressed. The responsibility for this should be placed on the command, but also perhaps on some of the players. It seemed like there was a good number of players mostly interested in just doing "their thing" and not really willing to operate within a "military" structure. But perhaps this was due to morale starting to decline after a while.

An other thing that left one with a strange feeling was that platoons could fight for hours to gain control over a CP, spend time defending it and then just abandon it and withdraw to base, leaving it open to Ikaros. This happend over and over again resulting in that one had to fight for the same CP's all the time. To defend the CP's over time did not seem to be an option. Twice I were a part of pushing as far as the Fishing Hole, defeating the Ikaros-forces, in that area only to totally abandon it and withdraw back to base after 30 minutes. Even if you were playing as Ikaros, I guess that you can imagine the frustration of having to climb that mountain all day long, actually win a fight, and then withdraw.

As a lowly GCT-infantrysoldier, this pretty much resulted in that one had to fight ones way OUT of the GCT-base. I dont mind the occassional raid against bases, but when one most of the time have to either:
a) litterary fight ones way across the border/road or:
b) really sneak and infiltrate, using wide flanking movements, to manage to cross the border/road things just become silly.

On several occassions did one run into roaming Ikaros-infantry mowing down greater parts of the platoon just 40-50 meters from the border. That is to say, if one made it across the road and survived the Ikaros-mech parked on the road outside GCT-base. Base-defence wasn´t something that was sorted out, and if it was, it never reached those assigned to provide base-protection. It was a free-for-all. At times, there was some troops guarding the entrances to the base but that seemed to be on their own initiative.

That was an extremely frustrating part of the game with Ikaros-Inf and Mech litterary sitting on the doorstep of the GCT-base effectively preventing people from getting out. I dont object to that principle at all since it was a good tactic, but the frustrating part was that very few in GCT-base did seem to care, and GCT-command seemed oblivious to the fact that fighting was going on between ad-hoc GCT-units (those who happened to be in that exact area and those who actually cared) and Ikaros. I only experienced one coordinated effort to clear that area, and that was done with what appeared to be massive artillerysupport. A telling example of this is during Thursday when Ikaros-mech and infantry pretty much took control over the road outside GCT-base and the terrain both east and west of the road, killing GCT en masse. I briefly returned to the base and there were some 100-150 GCT-players chilling and camping. I told a couple of guys who sat outside their tent what was happening and got the reply: "-Ok. So?"

I understand that people have payed good money to participate and should of course have the freedom to do what is most fun for them and get the most bang for the buck, but seriously?

It also seemed to be a total lack of coordination between various units (GCT-Inf) with everyone doing their own thing. Perhaps this was a result of the obvious difficulties of maintaining readiness and the keeping of times. Reading trough what I have written do I understand that it comes across as a total bashing of everything, but that is not the case. Not everything was bad. Many people tried their best, over and over, to succeed but did in most cases have too many difficulties to overcome in order to be able to do that. And after a while, things become futile. Command did fail, or did not really take command. As early as kick-off at Wednesday 2100H things were delayed and I think that most didn´t get off base until at earliest 2200H and there were still things that had not been worked out (lack of platoonleaders etc). GCT-Inf and GCT-Para went for the same CP, somehow allowing Ikaros to take control over the most northen CP (11?) on the mountain. GCT-Para didn´t even get airlifted anywhere until Day 2 of what was being said. Made little sense with Inf and Para chasing after the same objectives.

Being told when the game begun that Ikaros were not allowed to cross the border with forces larger than I squad, one became a bit surprised to find the base attacked by a big Ikaros force at Friday 0900. It felt staged, but also made me wonder how it could have been allowed by BE since as GCT-Inf, one got raped most of the times up at CP 10 and CP 11 - if one even got that far. Considering how the game had been for me, and my squad, I started to wonder where the value for my 120 Euro-ticket was and reached the conclusion that I had no interest climbing up the mountain only to provide Ikaros with something to shoot at.

Also, the balancing between the two sides was totally off. It was an un-even fight from the get go and given the superiourity in both boots on the ground, vehicles, BAVS and overall leadership, one would wonder how BERGET could have allowed it to be that un-even. Learning that Ikaros had a 4-1 or 5-1 superiourity in vehicles and also had grabbed the majority of BAVS did not really have a positive effect on morale. As someone said in this thread, it could risk people either not going to Berget again or just simly change to the other side in the next game. We joked about it in my team, but decided that we didn´t want to be "that guy". Balancing really needs to be fixed for next time, and BE should perhaps attempt to have better control over it by not allowing people to sign up for a certain team if they see an unbalance like it was this time being created. I had the oppertunity to speak with a couple of Ikaros-players in mainsafe, where it became clear that the red side had several teams that "always" played on the red side, knew each other, and also had an experienced, established and skilled command. Much more so than BLUFOR.

Also, learning that Ikaros was ordered to withdraw during Day 1 doesn´t feel very good. I know that we in the squad talked about how it was possible that GCT had captured certain areas, and the mentioning of limitations to Ikaros did come up.

What was positive was that I played in a very good platoon with motivated MILSIM-people who showed a very good behavior and gave the event a positive experience. The interaction with them and other people when out in the field and sitting in front of the campfire when not on mission is what made the event worth it for me.

Behavior and the flexibility of rules

I was a bit surprised to find that not many seemed to care about the rules regarding tents in the base, nor were they enforced by BE. Tents went up all over the place and the ammount of civilian tents not in line with the rules where plenty. The same with civilian cars that were parked in the base with no effort to put camo on. Perhaps a minor issue, and just an issue of mine, but I did not like it. Then there was the part of people constantly firing from their tents/campsites (calling out "testfire" if they remembered...). Sure, the firing-range was used by most, but many obviously did not want to walk that far. Many appeared to be mostly interested in camping while wearing military-clothing. At any given time there was some 200 GCT-players in base doing nothing (lack of orders?). The Ikaros-players I spoke with at mainsafe said that every time he had gone to take a look at the GCT-base (quite telling of the situation btw...), he had seen like 400 players there. Perhaps that number is a bit big, but it do provide a picture.
There were only two times that I experienced when the base was vacated, and that was at the initial roll-out and around mid-day on Friday when GCT attacked Krasnovo. Why this was the case, I dont know. Lack of command? Lack of interest, or willingness, to take orders/instructions from the platoons and players?

I am not going to complain much about people not taking their hits since it was not much of an issue, but given the circumstances was it very frustrating to see people shot from an ambush-position a couple of meters away not calling their hits. Like people in that Norwegian Ikaros-squad that on Thursday helped their Mech to kill off GCT on the border/road. But it left a sour taste in my mouth seeing people from a team that is clearly "winning" clearly not taking their hits. As I´ve stated before, it is perhaps a very black picture I am paiting here, and I am sure that there were several GCT-players not taking their hits as well.

During friday when Ikaros where messing about at the entrance to the GCT-base we ran into an Ikaros-player that provided the last drop for many in my squad. Hiding out in the in the bushes and leafes east of the border/road, we started to try and clear that area out. It was a good player who could hide well, no argue about that, but his aim and hearing must have been off. The reason Im saying this is because all but one in our squad got shot in the face or throat at short distance and continued to fire in said areas even after "HIT!". This caused some loud comments aimed at him regarding the relationship between him and his mother. Duly noted, not against the rules in any way, but facing that sort of behavior as a finale to getting steamrolled for a couple of days kind of made it enough.
I would however, in closing, like to say that these were the exceptions. All other Ikaros that I encountered was easy and nice to interact with and displayed a stellar behavior in regards of gameplay. /END NEGATIVE RANT

GM:s
What's that now? Cant really say that I noticed any of them.

Conclusion:
I am glad that I went since I´ve been looking forward to it for almost a year. I will attend next year if I can get off from work. But that time I will now what to expect. I had tried to keep my expectations down, considering the ammount of various people, and I cant say that I am disappointed. But I had expected more in some cases. I did what I could to get a good experience and provide others with a good experience, and I guess that I will have to be happy with that.
Berget 13 - GCT 1st. Infantry
Berget 14 - Nordic Alliance Force, C-Company
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by diamid » 29 Jun 2015, 16:04

Hey everyone. I will try to respond to questions or topics as good as possible. I see people talking about the GM innvolment in the IKAROS attack on the GCT base.

One of the main and most important rules in the OP order was that we where not allowed to attack over the Liburania boarder without a sever punishment.  (Accurate artillery and airstrikes and loss of capure point.)

But we where desperate to find something for you to do. Since the evening before the base attack, there where little blue movment and nothing to fight. Except Rangers doing hit and run missions.

As our IKAROS GM had to take some sleep due to security and HES (Health, Enviorment and Security) rules, we ask some other GMs to give us a go on a base attack. These gave us the green light.

Sadly the message reached the Main GMs to late. And we discovered that an attack at 0901 would mean our whole force would meet only one single  awake GCT soldier. There where only two options to make sure it did not end I a cluster mess and out/in tent fire.

1. Was to stop and ask all to RTB
or
2. Come to an agreement with BE.

We decided to make an common agreement, that way would not have to give a moral  crushing RTB. Agreement was to let the Liburania army start their artillery response early. Sadly and I appolagice, meant that some players where taken our before the even could see an single blue.

But I know BE Crew tried to be fair. In the OP order/rules all should have died. But they tried to select single groups and let some attack their base. A mech was inside the centre of their base after 19 min. (I was told)
Last edited by diamid on 30 Jun 2015, 12:12, edited 1 time in total.
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