The CP points

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 13

What did you think about the new capture point system ?

It was really good!
25
27%
Good, but in need of some improval.
60
64%
It was not god since i did not get login to the map.
9
10%
Dont use this system anymore.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 94

JKangas
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Re: The CP points

Post by JKangas » 30 Jun 2015, 17:07

^agree with Panzergraf. Close distance to respawn is appropriate for the Saturday all-out fight that we had also this year, and it gives ppl a chance to let steam out.

For the other days, close respawns make fights into weekend skirmishes that go endlessly back and forth around tactical points as both sides never run out of people.
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knudsen
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Re: The CP points

Post by knudsen » 01 Jul 2015, 00:11

What could have been an awesome system turned out to be... just meh...
The Berget Crew relied to heavily on just the system in it self. which made for alot of "go-there-capture-point-repeat" for no apparent reason.
Now what would have been awesome was if the capturepoints was parred with missions and actual useful locations.

examples:

one side: Hold the mill for 3 hours to produce food, then deliver food to Krasnovo to improve public relations.
other side: prevent capture of mill at XX hours (maybe get time to setup ambush or defense of point). try to stop food delivery.

one side: capture X points in a row to get supply-line into Y capture point where a small group of friendlies are holding position under enemy attack. manage this in Z time: get bonus. Can't manage: friendlies get wiped and Y point is lost for set amount of time.
other side: attacks on friendlies fortified position (build up area), and supply-line.

both sides: Collect supplydrops in capture points at set times on specific locations (good way for units to meet different places on the map).

one side: scout out areas to get intel about troop movement (scout should be able to give a description of number of cars on side and so on). reward: heads up on mechanized movements for the next XX hours.


The list could go on forever... and it would make the game so much more immersive! (I have tried it on a much smaller scale, and it was absolutely awesome).
Mix in civilians, and actual functions for the capturepoints and it only gets more awesome!

To sum up: Mix the new system with the old, and give the points purpose!

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Stelios
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Re: The CP points

Post by Stelios » 01 Jul 2015, 10:32

JKangas wrote:^agree with Panzergraf. Close distance to respawn is appropriate for the Saturday all-out fight that we had also this year, and it gives ppl a chance to let steam out.

For the other days, close respawns make fights into weekend skirmishes that go endlessly back and forth around tactical points as both sides never run out of people.

guys, I am not talking about endless respawn points around the map! I am talking about adding the ability to the commanders to create some LZs so they could decrease peoples fatigue and irritation on unsuccesfull missions (dont forget how much is honesty affected by fatique)!
I am talking here about adding another realistic option, that is to be able to receive reinforcements (respawn) close to the area of your operation (give a second chance to the operation, how often operations are succesfull??? especially in airsoft????)! and this is battle tactics!!!
nevertheless dont forget that we are able to respawn every 30min so easily the winner of the conflict could then search and destroy the LZ of his enemy pushing him further back!!!

Sunday games last forever?? always at some point the one side will achieve the objectives set!! and also at sunday games usually you dont get 30 min respawn!!! this is very important

guys this is airsoft!!! we meant to play airsoft, I put myself in the hardcore milsim player category, but this doesnt mean that we dont want to engage the oposition,
and also take into account that Berget is not a milsim event so when we say an opinion this must be taken into account. not all players want to walk so much time to get a firefight and get killed at the first shot!! this to most of them will have great effect to morale and to how honest take their hits!!!!

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beast
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Re: The CP points

Post by beast » 01 Jul 2015, 11:43

Some berget ago, be crew introduced "field hospitals" , they was exactly what stelios is talking about.

I found you guys made all some good observations about stelios proposal, but the problem of respawn is real.

If things are gonna stay the same for the future, I think it's vital that every single unit should know in real time where it's possible to respawn.
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Re: The CP points

Post by Helvetica » 03 Jul 2015, 14:02

First of all, i really liked the idea of the CPs! Its a nice way to see, how the situation on the field is at the Moment and for the future, there are many possibilities to use them within missions, as some posts before me mentioned it.

But i have a few things, that i didnt really liked this year about the CPs:

First of all, if you are infantry and you get the Mission to attack and hold CP10 twice per day, you just screw it... especially when your unit does not have that many vehicles.

there should be a way for the attacking force (this year the gct) to recive the total controll over a CP, so that it is controlled by us permanentley. This could be special Missions or holding a CP for a specific amount of time. Because in this story, we were attacking the Ikaros, so it was kind of disappointing, that every day startet with a new invasion of the same points, we took the day before.

And then, commanders should inform their platoons about the situation before sending them to the CPs... i dont know if other commanders did, but at the GCT infantry we didnt had much information about that. For example, On Friday 05.00 AM we had the mission to get into fadjikistan with 2 squads and take as many cps as we can. The first 5 CPs our troops reached were all ours, so we wasted about 1.5 hours at least. then we Captured about 2-3 points and as our order said, we went to CP6 and should hold it until our reinforcement arrives... well at 14.00h our 9 players had to give up CP6 against 1-2 platoons of ikaros (btw, really nice movement from ikaros guys). When we went back to the offgamezone, we saw at the screen, that we lost nearly all CPs we got this day.. it wasnt really motivating for future missions...
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vinni
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Re: The CP points

Post by vinni » 03 Jul 2015, 16:19

It kinda sucked from a recon standpoint, because it gave us less to do :P

But all in all, good system, could use some improvement (technical difficulties on reset) and some extra gizmos.
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Jack Scarecrow
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Re: The CP points

Post by Jack Scarecrow » 03 Jul 2015, 16:50

That´s actually a good idea. That points could be taken permanently by the attacking force. Especially when the game was so uneven.
That way they can always move forwards instead of having to return to the same point everyday. Probably gives the Ikaros more reason to go try stop them aswell instead of thinking ''lets just wait till they leave and we can easily go take it back when no one´s around''.
If they know they lose the point permanently if lets say the GCT hold it for 3-4h hours they would be more eager to defend them but still gives the GCT a clear goal that if they win the fight they actually gain from it for the rest of the game.
Of course this might turn bad if the attacking force takes all the points too quickly. So maybe they can split up? Like some of the points can be taken permanently and others not. Or set a cap for like 2 points a day that can be permanent that the attacking force get to choose.
It has to be balanced.

I do like the CP idea so maybe this way would be an improvement to concider.

(I know it might not be Ikaros vs GCT next year but i wrote it like that to help explain).
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wormbyte
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Re: The CP points

Post by wormbyte » 04 Jul 2015, 15:41

beast wrote:If things are gonna stay the same for the future, I think it's vital that every single unit should know in real time where it's possible to respawn.
I have to agree.

I understand that BE would not want all the players to see the live web map showing the status of all CP's as there is a risk they will make their own games using this information. But I think a version should be available to the players that shows the current respawn points. That wouldl be very useful, and could be powered from the same underlining web application.

Bottomline for me, as a commander, I loved the CP element of the game. When there was no specific missions from BE, the CP's gave commanders the chance to apply strategic thinking. However I would like to see more value to them other than connecting up a series of dots to create a supply chain which results in a respawn point.

Maybe the amount of time owned by a side can give them strategic points that they could exchange for advantages on the battlefield. Like in the old days when there was transport points and artillery support points.

And as others have said, I would like to have a clear indicator at the CP so that players know it is a respawn point. There were too many situations where players were respawning at a CP that they controlled, even though they had no supplyline to the CP. Not their fault as they were unable to see the status of the other CP's.

Overall....a great introduction to a new game mechanic, and I look forward to seeing future enhancements to the system.
Last edited by wormbyte on 06 Jul 2015, 19:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Rythm
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Re: The CP points

Post by Rythm » 06 Jul 2015, 17:46

What wormbyte said. Get supply points that can be handed in by the commander to get stuff from GM, like transports, that last part for the nuke, arty strikes, Temporary spawn point etc...

And i like the idea of taking a CP permanently. But would up the time to 8 hours. Remember footsloggers are slow on the third day...and also the reward should be given for something difficult, not because the other side is tied into other missions and cant spare a platoon for 4 hours.
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grasulas
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Re: The CP points

Post by grasulas » 08 Jul 2015, 11:06

Rythm wrote:...
And i like the idea of taking a CP permanently. But would up the time to 8 hours. Remember footsloggers are slow on the third day...and also the reward should be given for something difficult, not because the other side is tied into other missions and cant spare a platoon for 4 hours.
Sry bro but I don`t agree with you on this, if we create this rule all you need is to flood 3 CPS for 8 hours and you will have a link from the base to the other side of the map. CPs imo should create a tactical approach of the game, brake the fights in smaller units not all 1000 players in a area of one or two CPs. A balanced game should make almost impossible for a faction to control more then 50% of the CP, you will have to chose, pick what to defend and what to attack not use the mentality lets take everything.
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vinni
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Re: The CP points

Post by vinni » 08 Jul 2015, 11:17

I'm not keen on taking it permanently either. However, you could increase the capture time for positions that have been under the enemy's control longer.

By example: If you retake CP6 just after it had been captured, the standard half hour capture time would apply. But When trying to push to CP8, which has been under enemy control for 7 hours, a capture time of say 1.5 hours would be needed.

This would simulate removing all the bits and bobs the enemy put down during their stay, rearranging defenses to facing the other side, ...
And since it's boring to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours, it would be cool to actually get to do some of that. Hauling around sandbags for optimal defenses, rearranging a 'sattelite dish' (aka turning on the repeater), etc.
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wormbyte
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Re: The CP points

Post by wormbyte » 08 Jul 2015, 13:56

I like you're thinking, but I would be inclined to keep it simple until it is embedded and working well.

Some key improvements have been identified out of B13, and I would prefer to see those implemented and proven first.
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Re: The CP points

Post by isse » 08 Jul 2015, 14:50

Knudsen: to some degree this was true for the Ikaros. we in Demeter Research needed a number of CP to be under ikaros control (specifik ones) to be able to succeed in some missions. at one point we needed a CP (one of three) to deliver a blood sample but ikaros did not controll it. the ikaros took it but we had no transport and when we got our transport ikaros had lost the CP again. from "we need to deliver this blood sample" to acually delivering it was at least a 2 hour waiting time in the base.

you may perhaps don´t see a 2 hour downtime as a big deal but for us in demeter it was hell to experiencing it becouse all our missions were of a ladder type (must succeed to get the next mission). and getting a testresult of a bloodsample was at least 3 hour thing (from delivery to answer. said cp needed controll for delivery of testresult to).
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Re: The CP points

Post by L4gi » 08 Jul 2015, 16:45

Atleast you had some missions. :D
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Re: The CP points

Post by Helvetica » 12 Jul 2015, 13:59

vinni wrote:I'm not keen on taking it permanently either. However, you could increase the capture time for positions that have been under the enemy's control longer.

By example: If you retake CP6 just after it had been captured, the standard half hour capture time would apply. But When trying to push to CP8, which has been under enemy control for 7 hours, a capture time of say 1.5 hours would be needed.

This would simulate removing all the bits and bobs the enemy put down during their stay, rearranging defenses to facing the other side, ...
And since it's boring to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours, it would be cool to actually get to do some of that. Hauling around sandbags for optimal defenses, rearranging a 'sattelite dish' (aka turning on the repeater), etc.
But if the story is like this year, it makes sense, that the attacking force is able to capture some Points on their way. Otherwise the invading of Fadjikistan will start again every morning, especially if the attacking force does have less soldiers than the defenders. Perhaps BE could give out a Mission (without general Knowledge) that if GCT holds CP 10 for at least lets say 5 hours, it gets theirs permanently... like this they can make sure, that the attacking forces cant take over 3 Points at once and keep them for the rest of the game...
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