The BAVS system

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 13

How did bavs work

BAVS worked good this year.
20
39%
BAVS was ok but it did not work all the time
26
51%
BAVS dident work good.
5
10%
 
Total votes: 51

Askorbiini
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Askorbiini » 08 Jul 2015, 10:11

grasulas wrote:(...) The car has the possibility to move away using full of his combat capacity and mobility to safe area to be repaired under 5 min OVER AND OVER AGAIN as long the engineer is still alive (...)
Wrong. It's 15min for the engineer repair.
Game Rules, 2015 edition wrote:The eliminated vehicle must be repaired by an engineer (15 min repair time) or return to re-spawn flying an orange flag or marking, to indicate that they are off-game.
The vehicle should raise orange flag during repair time.
At least this is the rule we followed during the game.

But, enough with the nitpicking;
I do understand your point in balancing the game regarding vehicles and their hit taking. I don't however have any alternatives on this current rule. Since the BAVS-weapons reload as fast as they do, I do not find it a problem that a vehicle can fight against me until I've managed to take it out three times.
grasulas wrote:(...) btw there are engineers who are repairing the car from INSIDE (...)
I did not encounter any "Battlefield combat engineer inside" vehicles either. And by the rulebook, you shouldn't be able to do so, since the car is on fire after the BAVS goes off. You should address this problem to GM's, if that comes up. I know I would.
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Mark Karmann
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Mark Karmann » 08 Jul 2015, 11:23

First of i would like to thank BE-Crew for developing and providing such a great System for "Anti-Tank-Weapon" Simulation.
It is a great System and one major Reason to attend to Berget Games. Our Team loves it and it served us good on many Berget Games on our big Unimog "Endboss" and on Jeep Toms Häglunds last Year. On other big Airsoftgames when fighting a Vehicle the first thing comes to mind is "BAVS would be great to have, now!" So keep on the good work! We love it!

But it is however not flawless. We had some major Problems with the BAVS this Year on our "Stageboss" (see Pic) too. Therefor i apologize to anyone who experinced trouble fighting us!

As it turns out now, from looking @ some Videos and reading Commments the System did not work proberly since Day one. On the Thursday morning base defence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePCgPxkMqXQ [Video from Old Boys Airsoft] we where made aware that something was wrong. We changed the Battery to a fresh charged very Big Ah Pack, wich in most Cases helps and testet the System with our own Bavs. Everything worked fine then.

During the following attack on Krasnovo Hours later however a Marschal came to us and told us BAVS was not working again. As a Result were told to go to the Safezone and have it checked.

In the Safezone Be-Crew, very nice Guys, checked the System and it turned out the Connections were dodgy and/or the cabeling was defective. Wich resultet in disconnecting the IR-Reciver everytime we Hit a Bump in the Road. They then decided to pretty much change the System incl. the Cables as a whole.
The new Reciver worked fine for the Rest of the Event.

Side note: Make the Sirene louder. Not for the Opposition as a Hit-Signal but for our own Gunner! The Siren pretty much annoyed our Gunner. Wich resultet in a better awareness and engagement of the Gunner. Because he would not let anyone get close enough to the Car that could make the Siren go off again! :D :D

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Grape
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Grape » 12 Jul 2015, 00:08

THIS POST CONTAINS THE PERSONAL OPINON OF AN BAVS TECHNICIAN AND IS NOT THE OFFICIAL OPINION OF BE

Regarding the reloadtime of the BAVS 40mm grenades (or the 4T which is the name that I have been trying to give them).
The first versions had a much longer reload time of around 10 seconds (I don't remember exactly) but this resulted in quite a large number of broken triggerswitches (due to a design flaw you can break the trigger switch if you press too hard on the trigger of your grenadelauncher), when we lowered the reload time to what it is now (it is supposed to more or less match the time it takes for a skilled soldier to reload a M203) the problem have almost disappeared.

I don't think it would be a good idea to increase the reload-time too much. Both because of the aforementioned problem with the trigger switches and also because of the frustration I imagine a player might feel when they accidently fire the grenade into the ground just before an assault on a vehicle or when a player misses his/her target due to strong sunlight on the targets sensor and is forced to wait a couple of minutes before firing again. (it is not easy to count 120+ seconds during times of high stress.)

The balancing of BAVS is a balance of frustrations, the frustration the grenadier feels when he misses (either due to a real miss or due to the limitations of the IR-system) and the frustration that the driver feels when he is killed without knowing what happened or having a chance to defend him/herself.
My suggestion would be to keep the reload time as it is but increase the hitpoints of the least armored vehicle so that it takes two hits to take one out instead of one.

Regarding the large difference in vehicles between the Blues and the Reds one solution might be to give the commander of a team access to a number of grenades/AT-weapons depending on the number of vehicles on the enemy team and letting the commander distribute the grenades/AT-weapons as s/he seems fit.

The "Lawmaker" is a modified real (and fired) M72 LAW that belongs to a player, as an experiment we modified it to fire a souped up 40mm grenade by mounting it inside of the tube and connecting the trigger switch of the grenade to the real firing pin of the LAW.
Sadly this might be hard to do in large numbers due to the rather low supply and high cost of real LAWs.
Borduria Prevails

B7 Doctor / BAVS Crew
B8 Poldavian / BAVS Crew
B9 Driver, Ivanchuk Exports and Import / BAVS Crew
B10 BAVS Crew
B11 Tractor Mechanic / BAVS Crew
B12 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B13 Poldavian Officer / BAVS Crew
B14 BAVS Crew
B15 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B16 ??? / BAVS Crew

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Tiger_1
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Tiger_1 » 12 Jul 2015, 09:40

Nice to get some bavs tech input. The problem with the 40MM being commander handed out (as AT-4 has been before) is that it will make the rental part hard ;). I still believe a set nr of unit for each side (and as shop opens after ticket sales, the nr available to each side can be balanced in the shop) also, I think the total nr does not need to increase. Just who has what. There is also several player owned systems that are in use. So we do not need to flood the market. Perhaps Berget also should reduce bavs units if game area is very restrictive for mec (making the nr of mec kill boxes very low)

Not a bavs issue. But with a low amount of Ingame roads. Destroying them should be a lot harder, and not really done...
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vinni
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by vinni » 12 Jul 2015, 13:51

Would it be possible to sell Lawmaker kits? The fact that the system requires an actual action to reload by collapsing and extending the tube (even though the M72 is a one-shot deal IRL) and I believe that the IR beam is a lot narrower since the grenade is mounted in the back of the tube, it is in my opinion a weapon that is far more credible as the standard AT weapon.

In addition, it would be far better from a vehicle's standpoint to have the standard AT ordnance as a weapon that is not ready within 0.5 seconds, as is the case with grenadiers walking around with at 4T loaded up in their tube 24/7. Increasing the hit points of a vehicle makes the 4T still a viable means of damaging a vehicle but would carrying, hastily fumbling with and making movement and noise to extend a LAW worth the extra damage it does.

And by making it available for purchase, people with deactivated LAWs -or the intent to buy one- can make their own without any added production time and costs for BE.

The downside of having it available for purchase would be that, similar to rentals, you can't control who gets how many.
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Verage
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Verage » 12 Jul 2015, 16:33

vinni wrote:
The downside of having it available for purchase would be that, similar to rentals, you can't control who gets how many.
They can be limited by fraction or platoon.
Thay way, people who don't own one, can rent a BAVS.

vinni
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by vinni » 12 Jul 2015, 17:04

Verage wrote:
vinni wrote:
The downside of having it available for purchase would be that, similar to rentals, you can't control who gets how many.
They can be limited by fraction or platoon.
Thay way, people who don't own one, can rent a BAVS.
Not really, you can't really stop players from bringing their own gear, more so if it was specifically bought for use at BE (and isn't usable anywhere else), and especially if other players with the same piece of kit DO get to use it because they were faster with signing up or just happen to know the right people.

You could try to distribute people who bring such equipment over the unit(s) or group them together to have dedicated AT platoons, by example, but then you're pulling players away from the guys they may want to play with.
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Verage
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Verage » 12 Jul 2015, 17:57

Valid point

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fruhest
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by fruhest » 26 Jul 2015, 15:53

Askorbiini wrote:
I did not encounter any "Battlefield combat engineer inside" vehicles either. And by the rulebook, you shouldn't be able to do so, since the car is on fire after the BAVS goes off.
I think he was talking about cars with 2 or more hit points, that have only been hit once. Not a car that has been destroyed.
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Askorbiini
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Askorbiini » 04 Aug 2015, 14:30

fruhest wrote:
Askorbiini wrote:
I did not encounter any "Battlefield combat engineer inside" vehicles either. And by the rulebook, you shouldn't be able to do so, since the car is on fire after the BAVS goes off.
I think he was talking about cars with 2 or more hit points, that have only been hit once. Not a car that has been destroyed.
The rules don't mention any possibility to repair a vehicle that has been hit but not destroyed.
The eliminated vehicle must be repaired by an engineer (15 min repair time) or return to re-spawn flying an orange flag or marking, to indicate that they are off-game.
The vehicle should raise orange flag during repair time.
So, following that line on the rules, doing "field repairs" to a vehicle that's been hit, from inside the vehicle, is still considered cheating.
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B10 - Zansian Black Guard
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Panzergraf
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Re: The BAVS system

Post by Panzergraf » 04 Aug 2015, 16:02

It makes no sense to repair it from inside either. What's the engineer supposed to fix from there?
The engineer should be outside, kicking the tires and looking under the hood to se if the engine is still there.
The rules don't mention any possibility to repair a vehicle that has been hit but not destroyed.
Well, --- SPAM !!! --- the rules then. Repairing damaged vehicles in the field, guarded by the rest of the unit, is still a cool thing to have in game.
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