GENERAL FEEDBACK

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 14
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NumbNuts
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by NumbNuts » 07 Jul 2016, 14:23

Base attacks

Yes, in an airsoft game, attacking or destroying the enemy base does absolutely nothing. Except tire and piss of the enemy team. Which is a solid plan, but not that sportsmanlike.

Also in Härnö it's not that big of a deal to get to the red base for example. It's driving off game and then you're almost there.

All in game goals should be located in a FOB.
Wanna kill enemy command? Attack the fob and destroy it.
Wanna destroy enemy communications? Attack the fob and destroy it.
Wanna destroy and remove all enemy units? Can't because the the base is in a another castle.
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Miksu » 07 Jul 2016, 17:24

L4gi wrote:Seriously? This is written on the website and the right number you get when you book your ticket. How much more easier can it get? :D
Sorry L4gi I somehow totally missed it, it is actually first sentence in the email you get when you book your ticket, my bad.
NumbNuts wrote:IMHO provided armbands make for better feel of unity. DIY stuff looks like the rainbow of deathrags and vehicle flags.
Well I agree with you about that, but since BE cant provide us good quality armbands they could try to make easy enough tutorial so everyone's mom can make a custom one and they all would look almost the same. Or then try to make one unbelievably good one with velcro on it so you would need to buy arm band on blue side only once and next time you could buy only that embroidered player number to it. Because I believe that is something that I am going to do for next year, since I am so tired to pay 12 euros every year for the armband that is better than nothing but far from the one that I could make my self, well not maybe for 12 euros but it would perform a lot better and last forever. And the biggest downside in BE provided armbands is that they always need those safety pins to stay on your hand, and when you are wearing goretex jacket I find it incredibly hard to make the armband stay on its place, since the goretex outer shell is very slippery and I am not interested to punch any holes to it.
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Twisty
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Twisty » 07 Jul 2016, 19:02

Pros:

- Nice gameplay and alot of friendly people.

- Awesome town with people play as civ's.

- Safezone check-in was pretty fast :). Chono was abit slow but we had alot of time to wait in anyway :P.

- Upir toliets was clearn and okey.

- Awesome with water in base.

- I think that the balance of both sites was good.

Cons:

- Chaos about which "berget tent" to sleep in, as the one we should have was already full.

- Each tent has a capacity to hold 14-16 men well most of the berget tents had more then 18-20 people with full gear in it. (UPIR). They should not be that many people in one tent !.

- It was a chaos to get a squad to play in and we had to find another one by urself. But we manage to team up with some very awesome people in the last minute.

- Very bad offgame parking for the civ's cars chould be better. (not all of us have offroads cars or tanks :tank:)

- The shower was so cold ! (I know it is a outdoor game) but damn we live in 2016 chould be possible with alitte warmer then minus something xD.

- I know it is a event but the shop in safezone was so overpriced.

- I saw some people instant respawn after being hit and healed by the medic with a bandage . (I don't think that people knew the rule about the 2 minuts heal or just cheated).

Overall I think if I got the time for it I will return for berget next year as the first time was fun as hell. Even that we had to leave before the game ended. :).
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Verage » 07 Jul 2016, 19:43

I really like the base attacks, it keeps you focused for the game. In the red base, it was nice to see that most of the people there picked up their weapon and start defending the base.
Even when they where eating, sleeping, shitting, ...

NAF did some nice base attacks, attacking from different directions. Good job on that one!

Sure you have to be carefull with tents and stuff like that. If you are sleeping keep your deathrag and weapon close. If you want to be left alone, just put your deathrag on your head.

Two of our team entered some tents during a baseattack, wispering to the people while holding their hand on their belly, "You are dead" =)

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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by wormbyte » 07 Jul 2016, 20:49

I personally am not in favour of base attacks. I am in favour of having a key target near the base, such as the FAD, or Oil Refinery.

The problem with the base is that it requires a lot of people to defend it properly, and the defence needs to be up held 18 hours a day. It is always a chore having to organise base defence duty because most players hate it. They just want to get out and play. For most people, base guard duty is incredibly boring.

Plus as well is the disruption is causes to operational planning. Any form of planning is put on hold during an attack, and players that were getting ready to head out become scattered during the defence against the attack, and need to re-org before continuing. Placing planning and organising on hold means delaying guys getting out on missions, which in turn pisses them off because they just experience the delay, and don't understand why.

Lets face it, if this was a real theatre of war, I would have have those tents behind a Hesco wall, with sangers at various points covering the area with machine guns. Razor wire around the walls as well, along with registered fire points to bring down mortar or artillery and key points around the outside of the base. Instead I have some mounds as my defensive, and players on base defence that are disengaged because they find the task boring and a pain in the arse.

And there is no case here for the milsim argument, because Berget is not considered to be a milsim event.

So I say rule out the bases and put more targets in the field.
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Stavros » 09 Jul 2016, 13:31

To start off this was by far the worst Berget for me and many of my teammates. However I do not blame Berget for this. Below I will try to explain what I think contributed to this. Lastly, this is my experience, you might have a totally different one from mine, but remember this one is mine. Post a response if have anything to say.

- ROADS: First of all the roads being shut off inte middle of the map, really screwed it up for us in the NAF mechanised. It meant that we hade to go offgame to go anywhere and often the enemy saw us coming. Finally this was a decision made by the municipality of Härnösand, not berget.

- SAFETY DISTANCES: I have never experienced the same amount of disregard for safety distances. Maybe there is a need for more player trustees who can step in and resolve issues like these. Lastly, players have to understand that adhering to the safety limits is the greatest responsibility they have at Berget. If you completely disregard the limits and injure another player to an extent that he/she has go to the ER, then you could potentially face an arrest. Lastly in Sweden any person within its borders can make a citizens arrest (with restrictions however) and call the police, which I would seriously consider if I ever witnessed something similar.

- NAF LEADERSHIP: Some people seem to be content with our HQ, Im not. Wormbyte you stated that we should approach you if we were discontent, so that we felt we got our monies worth. Well, you and youre officers weren't accessible, your bodyguards seemingly had the dual purpose of warding off the enemy aswell as the "undesirables" from your own team.
LG4i: Im sorry but what youre are claiming doesn't, in any sense, match my experience.
Klings who was soppoused to be are company commander, practically never gave our plutoon (4th NAF mechanised) any missions. You stated at a point that we shouldn't se you as a commander but more as an organiser. Well, you did organise missions, with your own teamates and buddies and ultimately left nothing but breadcrumbs for the rest of us. SHAME ON YOU! Dont accept responsibility if you can't handle it!!!!
Wormbyte you then claimed that our plutoon was poorly led and chose to deal with the issue by punishing us and posting us on guard duty on the FAP between 3-9 on the last night. That ultimately led me and my teammates to contact Dr. Black and create a LARP- scenario where the target was you. So I shot you and my teammate stabbed you as we had no other forum to express anything. I was so angry at the HQ at the time, that the hurt expression you had in your eyes after I shot you, was my best berget experience. Which im not too proud of.
Fucked up, right? Well thats what transpired and I believe there is an issue with blue side and it's leadership, especially with their "gentlemans club" where only affiliated members are accepted. Could I perhaps receive a membership card to Berget 15 or am I screwed after shooting my own commander?
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by wormbyte » 09 Jul 2016, 16:12

I am very sorry to hear that you such a poor experience.

However I would like to address some misconceptions and grossly incorrect assumptions.

Yes I had guards on the front door of the HQ for two reasons:

1. HQ Protection after we had a number of small enemy squads infiltrating our defence.
2. To allow command to focus on the game and not be constantly interrupted by players wanting to provide intel. Yes we want intel and that's why we had dedicated staff to collect such information without constantly distracting senior command staff.

However that was an in-game mechanic. If you wanted to raise concerns off-game then there would have always been people ready to listen and address those concerns. We had one such incident which was addressed. As well as this, I also made frequent walks around the base, engaging with teams, asking them if they were enjoying themselves as well as providing them a high level picture of what was going on. Of course I did not have time to talk to every group, but I tried as much as possible.

You assume I gave all the missions to my own team mates and buddies. I have one team that I have been recently associated with, and as far as I am aware, they were not given any berget specific missions. Their team leader was often brought in "after" planning and unit assignment, and asked how they can best support the missions that other players were given.

All objectives were given to company level command, with the intention of providing them my intent. I left the specifics to the company commanders, mech commander and ranger commander. I was very keen to not micro-manage units and I made this clear to the commanders that reported directly to me. The reason for this was simple, trying to command up to platoon level 25 units in the field would have been an unmanageable task, and would have ultimately undermined the empowerment I wanted to provide company level commanders.

You say that it was claimed that your unit was poorly led and thus you were given the duty of FAD defence during the night. This could not be further from the truth. The reality is that the infantry took on the responsibility of base/FAD defence, as I did not want to take specialised units out of the field (mechs and rangers). However, we were understaffed on "one" rotation and that is when we turned to Mech Command to see if the mech units could provide support for one 6 hour rotation.

I find it a great shame that you did not put as much effort in to raising your concerns as you did "expressing yourself" by assassinating the top level command. Your actions could have comprised our securing of the town on the final hours of the game due to removing my character from play for the best part of 1.5 hours.

If you have any feedback you wish to provide that could help anyone undertaking such a huge role in the future then please contact me directly, along with any suggestions you may have to help improve future games (specifically around command at all levels).
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by grasulas » 09 Jul 2016, 16:27

Stavros wrote:To start off this was by far the worst Berget for me and many of my teammates. However I do not blame Berget for this. Below I will try to explain what I think contributed to this. Lastly, this is my experience, you might have a totally different one from mine, but remember this one is mine. Post a response if have anything to say.

....
Wormbyte you then claimed that our plutoon was poorly led and chose to deal with the issue by punishing us and posting us on guard duty on the FAP between 3-9 on the last night. That ultimately led me and my teammates to contact Dr. Black and create a LARP- scenario where the target was you. So I shot you and my teammate stabbed you as we had no other forum to express anything. I was so angry at the HQ at the time, that the hurt expression you had in your eyes after I shot you, was my best berget experience. Which im not too proud of.
Fucked up, right? Well thats what transpired and I believe there is an issue with blue side and it's leadership, especially with their "gentlemans club" where only affiliated members are accepted. Could I perhaps receive a membership card to Berget 15 or am I screwed after shooting my own commander?

I found this not in the spirit of the game, inventing a LARP mission just to revenge you`r problems with the HQ is not honorable and believe me I had my share of bad commanders from been called "second grade country player" to making guard duty at the latrine for 10 hours, I was furious but still remember the game is for everyone not just for me, your revenge fucckk up other players game not just Ian, hope you feel good about it.

The same goes for that Blue player who owned the car used to infiltrate our base, you find it funny to agree for the enemy to use you`r car and shoot us, how about if next time if I find you in my base I go rogue and shoot you every single time I see you, just for shit and giggles, is allowed by the rules, and you will have to take the hits because of the rules.
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by wormbyte » 09 Jul 2016, 16:41

grasulas wrote:...I had my share of bad commanders from been called "second grade country player" to making guard duty at the latrine for 10 hours, I was furious but still remember the game is for everyone not just for me...
That was previous games right grasulas? Not this one I hope. :)
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Arradin » 09 Jul 2016, 16:42

Please keep feedback on a constructive non-personal level.
You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

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grasulas
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by grasulas » 09 Jul 2016, 16:46

wormbyte wrote:
grasulas wrote:...I had my share of bad commanders from been called "second grade country player" to making guard duty at the latrine for 10 hours, I was furious but still remember the game is for everyone not just for me...
That was previous games right grasulas? Not this one I hope. :)

ofc, I will fight with you or under you`r command any time :).
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by M.Koho » 09 Jul 2016, 17:00

Stavros wrote: Wormbyte you then claimed that our plutoon was poorly led and chose to deal with the issue by punishing us and posting us on guard duty on the FAP between 3-9 on the last night. That ultimately led me and my teammates to contact Dr. Black and create a LARP- scenario where the target was you. So I shot you and my teammate stabbed you as we had no other forum to express anything. I was so angry at the HQ at the time, that the hurt expression you had in your eyes after I shot you, was my best berget experience. Which im not too proud of.
Fucked up, right? Well thats what transpired and I believe there is an issue with blue side and it's leadership, especially with their "gentlemans club" where only affiliated members are accepted. Could I perhaps receive a membership card to Berget 15 or am I screwed after shooting my own commander?
May I ask at which time did you contact Dr. Black?
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Losolos » 09 Jul 2016, 19:50

im just writing my B14 summary .. so only a few words :)

completly agree with stavros .. when i compare last year red HQ with this year blue HQ its a gentlemens club for sure !

I told your great NAF Intel officer , who by the way had no savety glasses on 3 time when i meet him ( and i told him to put them on), take no care of every ingame content i talked to him .. completly fail !

We brought back medical supplies when red attack town and only two squads NAF left there... 4h later we got double healing because we had medical supplies !? only word we got .. put the chest there and move out of HQ !

Contact of Dr.Black was me because our connections on Hades police :)
Friday night when she was back in red base !
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Jack Scarecrow » 09 Jul 2016, 20:41

Well I was still ''offgame'' by then and our contact was quite offgameish. They knew I was being held imprisoned and just contacted me with their plans to try help me out. Even though I know Losolos was kinda on my side ingame, I have no face memory and therefore will not be able to know who he is. He tried helping out by sending a picture of himself and say when he was about to come around, and what actions he would be doing. Because ingame I was supposed to know him, but offgame I just can´t recognize people.
So sure I knew of their plan to try kill their commander (Who I didn´t know who they meant) and to attack the guards.
And I did ask them to just knock the guards out instead.
So well I will not be taking blame for their actions, It was still their idea. I just though the guys at the camp could use some action and I had no reason to stop their larping (Although I do not agree with people attacking their own officers). I also didn´t expect them to actually succeed in killing their commander. Still, It´s not on me. I gave them no orders whatsoever, they did what they wanted to do.
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Windi^ » 09 Jul 2016, 21:18

Losolos wrote:im just writing my B14 summary .. so only a few words :)

completly agree with stavros .. when i compare last year red HQ with this year blue HQ its a gentlemens club for sure !

I told your great NAF Intel officer , who by the way had no savety glasses on 3 time when i meet him ( and i told him to put them on), take no care of every ingame content i talked to him .. completly fail !

We brought back medical supplies when red attack town and only two squads NAF left there... 4h later we got double healing because we had medical supplies !? only word we got .. put the chest there and move out of HQ !

Contact of Dr.Black was me because our connections on Hades police :)
Friday night when she was back in red base !
I acted as a intel officer for NAF, along with Buckmaster and Andrei. From our point of view we tried gather as much intel and provide senior HQ stuff with filtered, best parts of intel, as much as we could. You can imagine all going along, that not all of the ingame intel won't go trough. Especially this concerns about LARP elements for a single player, it just might not fit in with planning all the moves with the INF, Mech and Rangers. That is just how it is, not every single small detail will get trough. We just have to filter the incoming intel or otherwise we would be running around chasing every single small story, and 3 days of game play is just not enough.

I didn't see any of the intel officers not wearing eye protection. If they did, good that you said about that. But that doesn't make him a bad person, or a not fit for the HQ role, as far I see, that comment is needless if we are talking about the real issue here.

You might have been told to leave the crate to HQ and leave, maybe it's that there were planning ongoing with CO and XO and they wanted total privacy to get things done. Might you think that, there is need for that at certain points?

If you have concerns like this ingame, and you feel that your message is not getting trough, why don't you point it out and go "offgame" and deal with it?

I haven't been part of this HQ ever before, I have met the people before for sure. This was the most transparent, fair HQ I have seen a long long time, and it got things done.

If you see a HQ guy sitting and using his phone, it doesn't mean that he is not doing anything, it means that he is writing a whatsapp message, or similar, to sort things out, relay your message etc. Running the HQ with 8 guys total was not an easy task, believe me.
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