Revise the "knife rule"?

General information about our next game summer 2016.

What do you prefer?

We keep the rule as it is.
41
68%
We change the rule according to the suggestion.
19
32%
 
Total votes: 60

pekezu
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by pekezu » 12 Nov 2016, 21:10

I.Kullberg wrote:If you don't need any weapon to knife kill, you can do it after being searched and handcuffed. It has happened before in Berget that civilian in the prison just started knifekilling guards, with hands tied.
Every handshake is a risk, if just words "knife kill" will eliminate you. If you need to have some kind of "weapon" in your other hand, be it airsoft gun or orange rubber knife or any other rule specified object while you use your hand to touch the opponent (not the knife holding hand, but the empty one) the enemy has possibility to see that you are armed and dangerous.
Knife kills between "soldiers" is not the problem with current rules. Knife kills between civilians is the problem.
Last year the rules stated that civs can't knife kill unless armed/wearing yellow armband. Regular civilians had only possibility to carry weapons IF their profession or other attributes demanded so. Otherwise they would have yellow armband showing that they are armed and possibly hostile. They had possibility to knock out each other or soldiers BUT only with larp weapons.

So that kind of cuts the case. I agree that with civilians I would suggest there could be rubber knives for a case you have been interrogated and someone didn't search you well enough so you could use the rubber knife hidden in your boot etc. And of course if you are armed it is a whole different situation.
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I.Kullberg
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by I.Kullberg » 12 Nov 2016, 21:31

At the moment there is no that kind of text in the rules. I would like that all rules are in the "rules" section of the web page, and that knife rule would be the same for soldiers and civilians. In most cases soldiers have weapons with them, so nothing changes, but in cases of larp missions/situations, undercover agents and civilian-soldier interactions the rules would be clear and same to all.
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Arradin
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Arradin » 13 Nov 2016, 00:46

Civilians dont knife kill, they use "knock out" , which have the same effects but not lethal, and in the case of Civilians actually being armed. Trust me, you CAN NOT miss it. Be provided weapons are HUGE.
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Jens » 13 Nov 2016, 06:40

If you've posted in this thread, some of this might be meant for you.

Some things to consider:
1: Safety is always the primary concern in any game.
2: No knife kill, in any game, ever, should include anyone holding an actual knife. In either hand. Logical safety concerns restrict that.
3: Knife kills/knockout shouldn't be possible by anyone unarmed. Therefore, anyone who wishes to do something like that should be in possesion of the required equipment. (knife for knife kills/guns, logs, knives, baton for knockouts)
4: The hand used for (melee) should always be empty. Rubber/calimacil blades aren't necessarily confortable being stabbed with.
5: Safety is ALWAYS the primary concern in any game.

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NIN
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by NIN » 13 Nov 2016, 07:21

Very interersting discussion.
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MiqaFox
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by MiqaFox » 13 Nov 2016, 11:08

If you are taking out an incapacitated soldier in the field, I see no need for a physical knife, which is the major use of the knife rule. In reality, this could be done with any means at hand, most likely with another round, or strangling, stones, barrel of the rifle etc.

If we are talking about trying to assault/kill someone in game, a physical object to show the intent would be good. If I could chose, the person would attack with his palm and hold the object in the other hand.
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by HerrNilson » 13 Nov 2016, 18:05

MiqaFox wrote: a physical object to show the intent would be good.
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by vinni » 14 Nov 2016, 10:24

For LARP purposes, it would be advisable to need an object that can be found during a search and needs to be manipulated in order to perform a knifekill.

Someone without a knife shouldn't be able to do a knifekill, or shaking someone's hand, saying 'knifekill' and then showing a knife in your back pocket.
Even if it's a piano wire, someone observing the situation should be able to spot the attacker preparing something and have the possibility to intervene.
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Arradin
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Arradin » 14 Nov 2016, 10:36

vinni wrote:For LARP purposes, it would be advisable to need an object that can be found during a search and needs to be manipulated in order to perform a knifekill.

Someone without a knife shouldn't be able to do a knifekill, or shaking someone's hand, saying 'knifekill' and then showing a knife in your back pocket.
Even if it's a piano wire, someone observing the situation should be able to spot the attacker preparing something and have the possibility to intervene.
this is already how it works.

For me, a knife kill has always been a way to kill soneone at very short distances, and has always been more of a safety issue than anything else. For example. you want to kill someone who is shot, but instead of risking stuf by shoting him again point blank, you knifekill.

Out of LARP perspecive, Knife kill is extremely boring, and as i mentioned earlier noone of the LARP Groups very rarely use it at all.

my personal opinion is that things are fine as is :)
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Windi^
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Windi^ » 14 Nov 2016, 12:01

NIN wrote:We have a rule about players never having knives on their person visible, instead it should be neatly tucked away inside your pack.
What? Since when? How do you enforce this? Why do you have a rule that no one enforces? I always carry my knife on a belt, and my Leatherman too. We are in a forest environment, you never know when you are going to need either of these. These are never to be used for any gaming or anything, but I will carry them nonetheless. Never ever go in to the woods or similar without some kind of a knife.
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Wynn » 25 Nov 2016, 09:35

Ok, I just read Berget Rules and I saw no mention that real knives are banned from being carried on person. I have heard rumours of this rule since berget 8 when one of your gm's complained about my non sharp bayonet that I had on a shoulder strap of my harness.

If it is a rule, why is it not in the rules.

I estimate 95% of finnish players carry a knife and/or multitool during the game because it is an important tool in the forest.


As to the knife kill rules, in Berget 9 we had a civilian assassinate the town elder in the middle of our PMC group with an nonexistant knife and when questioned about it and "searched" he said he didn't have a knife, therefore not giving us any proof that he did it, even when we saw him grab the elder's shoulder and whisper something to him just before.
Last edited by Wynn on 30 Nov 2016, 11:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Corni
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Corni » 26 Nov 2016, 12:56

We are all spending somewhat four days in the woods and are camping. Of course everyone carries a utility/Army knife.

Nevertheless this thread as I understand it, is about allowing rubber knifes as well.
Rubber/plasik knifes were forbitten because everyone probably is already carrying a real knife and confusions can occur.
To be honest with somewhat 1800 Players on the field somebody is going to to something stupid eventually. I guarantee it
Which is why I'd vote for keeping the hand rule.

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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Crapgame » 26 Nov 2016, 13:17

@wynn

language check! don't go calling names in internet fury. u can still be polite when complaining

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Wynn
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Wynn » 30 Nov 2016, 11:12

@crapgame will edit the text then, sorry if I offended anyone. Still, if the knife ban on the field is a rule, it should be in the rules. I don't want to get thrown out of a game because of a rule that is not IN THE RULES.
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Re: Revise the "knife rule"?

Post by Windi^ » 30 Nov 2016, 16:51

Wynn wrote:@crapgame will edit the text then, sorry if I offended anyone. Still, if the knife ban on the field is a rule, it should be in the rules. I don't want to get thrown out of a game because of a rule that is not IN THE RULES.
Again, this would be yet another rule that no one will enforce, thus making it a rule is stupid. There shouldn't be any problems to carry a knife on your belt, it poses as much risk as having your own fists still attached to your arms. There is real issues to attend rule wise, I hope no one will create a problem from a item that really isn't and haven't been a problem.
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