Rule Suggestions

General information about our next game summer 2016.
vinni
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by vinni » 16 Jan 2017, 12:47

Maybe add another zip tie to indicate bb weight for that gun?
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by M.Koho » 16 Jan 2017, 15:25

Or add a laminated paper stating the BB weight to same zip tie? (I like the way you think Vinni.)
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by Panzergraf » 16 Jan 2017, 16:37

Satela wrote:Last year the chroning was a total f*ck up. The BBs used in chroning were 0,25 but just 1 out of the 3 crewmembers understood how to actually use the chrono and how to compare the results to the velocitylimits given for 0,2 BBs. The other 2 crewmembers didn't have a clue of what they were doing.
I had no idea they used .25 for chroning last year. Must be why all our guns had lower muzzle velocities than expected. Some of them might even have been over their limits, without any of us (or the chrono crew) ever knowing.


Imagine what a mess it would be if people chronoed using the BB weights they use in the field. I'm against it for that reason, it would just be a clusterfuck and the lines would be even longer than they were last year. I suspect many players have no clue how this works either.
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Corni
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by Corni » 16 Jan 2017, 17:40

L4gi wrote:But its not the same.

Gun A) Shoots 130m/s with 0.2g Berget BB. Player uses BB .30, but since his gun uses all the air properly in the system, or has a really long barrel or something, his gun shoots 2 joules(just as an example, not actual scientific numbers). Guy knows how to "tech" past the rules, as people do a lot.

Gun B) Shoots 130m/s with 0.2g Berget BB. Player uses BB .30, but since his gun doesnt use the air as efficiently as Gun A, his gat only comes in at 1.6 joules with .30.

This is how you get the problems with people shooting with "hot guns". They technically arent, but in reality one gun can have a much higher impact energy than the other. Wouldnt it be safer to chrono everything in joules then, so that everyone(atleast most people who play fair) are on the same page, and you can clearly see when someone breaks the MED for example.

I totally agree with you here.
What I am trying to say is that if you measure both guns with 0.30g BBs

Gun A (2Joules) would measure a speed of 379fps (115ms)
and
Gun B (1.6Joules) would measure a speed of 339fps (103ms)
(actual values)

The Joul value is allways just a theoretical claculated value using weight and speed. I want to be very clear here
you cannot measure the joul-creep simply by switching the chronograph to joules.

To verify the joul-creep you need to chrone the gun with the BB-weights the player actually uses.
And if you do this you would see the difference by setting your chrony to fps and m/s as well as Joul.

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Windi^
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by Windi^ » 16 Jan 2017, 17:47

Hazardous wrote: That's exactly the point why all chrono with .20 BB's :)
Otherwise we would have a list that would look something like:
Class 3 @ .20 .......... 129m/s (1.6J)
Class 3 @ .25 .......... 111m/s (1.6J)
Class 3 @ .28 .......... 103m/s (1.6J)
(these numbers are just shot from my hip, not actual measurements)

The point is that it doesn't matter what weight you use, restrictions are the same never the less :P
This is the INCORRECT way to chrono. Ville explained why below. Last year BE chrono with 0.2g BB stated that my gun shot only 117m/s (1.4J @ 0.2g BB) and safety distance accordingly. My actual chrono result with 0.3g BB that I am using is 113m/s (1.95J @ 0.3g BB) --> This basically translates to 139m/s with 0.2g BB.

So you see, the result is totally inaccurate if you use 0.2g (and some crappy brand BB). Thus you should learn to do this the right way, the way the result are accurate and true. It might mean more work, but this way it is done properly. CHECK THE JOULES WITH THE ACTUAL BB WEIGHT, NOT THE M/S FIGURE!

NOTE: I am using RPK, so it is allowed to shoot above values. Knowing what my gun actually shoots with proper BB, I demanded the actual zip tie and I used the actual safety distance of 15 meters! So you see, BE would have me allowed to shoot targets too close due to incorrect chroning results.
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Askorbiini
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by Askorbiini » 08 Feb 2017, 21:13

This is not as much a suggestion as it is a question, but:
SNIPER RIFLES
If you want to play as a sniper your gun must look like a sniper rifle with scope, no mp5/uzi/m4/ak47 etc with scope is allowed as sniper.
According to this rule all sniper rifles are required to have a scope. Does it include all bolt action rifles with no exceptions?

I'm thinking about building a secondary (backup) rifle for myself, which would be equipped with iron sights and no scope, just in case if something happens to my primary sniper rifle or the scope mounted on it.
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Arradin
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by Arradin » 09 Feb 2017, 18:40

Askorbiini wrote:This is not as much a suggestion as it is a question, but:
SNIPER RIFLES
If you want to play as a sniper your gun must look like a sniper rifle with scope, no mp5/uzi/m4/ak47 etc with scope is allowed as sniper.
According to this rule all sniper rifles are required to have a scope. Does it include all bolt action rifles with no exceptions?

I'm thinking about building a secondary (backup) rifle for myself, which would be equipped with iron sights and no scope, just in case if something happens to my primary sniper rifle or the scope mounted on it.
Considering the fact that you will be playing as Mechanized, i dont see why not. But you are best of getting 100% correct answer by emailing to info@berget-events.com
You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

seaQ
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by seaQ » 11 Feb 2017, 19:23

This is not very hard and is performed on plenty of games in Sweden. The guys doin the chronoing doesn't even need to know much about it. All they have to do is ask what bullet weight the guy uses, shoot the gun through the chrono and look at this table:

https://sjoqvist.org/bergetchrono
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by Fly » 12 Feb 2017, 20:22

seaQ wrote:This is not very hard and is performed on plenty of games in Sweden. The guys doin the chronoing doesn't even need to know much about it. All they have to do is ask what bullet weight the guy uses, shoot the gun through the chrono and look at this table:

https://sjoqvist.org/bergetchrono
Did you ever perform chrono-testing at an event?
Your remark is flawed, because you think all players are truthfull?
I am a marshall and perform monthly fps-checks.
We get the craziest things, from hop up so turned on that the bb is stuck to testing with much heavier bb's then the 0.20 that should be used.
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vinni
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by vinni » 12 Feb 2017, 21:00

Player honesty is indeed a tricky variable to account for.

To be correct, you'd have to ask the player which bb weight he uses, make him shoot with BE-provided bbs (to be sure) and then label that weapon with the correct class and the correct bb weight.

This might be doable on your regular sunday skirm, but on a 1851 player event it gets tricky.
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seaQ
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by seaQ » 12 Feb 2017, 22:27

Fly wrote:Did you ever perform chrono-testing at an event?
Your remark is flawed, because you think all players are truthfull?
I am a marshall and perform monthly fps-checks.
We get the craziest things, from hop up so turned on that the bb is stuck to testing with much heavier bb's then the 0.20 that should be used.
I have performed several chrono-tests, so yes, I know what i am talking about. And yes I know there are alot of tricks to be dealt with. HOWEVER, it's really simple, thoose who would like to cheat, will cheat. You can't stop that in any way on a airsoft game.
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Re: Rule Suggestions

Post by AVIA » 21 Feb 2017, 23:20

Honesty is not a relevant factor in pregame chrono, since anyone who wants to cheat can go and change spring afterwards.

Pregame chromo should only be considered an opportunity, to make sure your gun is within limits and safe to use. Which is why only chromo with own bbs and joule chart makes sense.

Catching cheaters, can only be done by doing random chrono with bb weight check during the game.
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