improvement suggestions for B10

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 9
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Zoidberg
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Post by Zoidberg » 11 Jul 2011, 02:09

spin_t wrote:In 2-3 years the all mighty Berget will become just a crap game,
a meeting place for all the Europe airsoft retards ( half of them was already there this year).
If you dont like it don't come, I think we will do fine without you.
spin_t wrote: If you decide to come to this game,that means you understand what a MILSIM game is and you r ready to act propperly.
Berget is not a pure milsim game, there a alot of other alternativs for that.
There is some milsim units yes, but that does not make it a milsim for the rest of us.
Aksel Schmidt

B7: Yori Orlovs Mercs 2, 2
B8: NAF 23th, FOX 5
B9: UN MP
B10: Poldavian Psy-ops
B11:
B12:
B13: Ikaros Hades
B14: Upir psy-ops
B15: Upir Lawyer
B16: NAF SIU
B17: TFC MP

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motorhead
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Post by motorhead » 11 Jul 2011, 02:19

Well said on the MILSIM, Spin_T. MILSIM units should also have their own, separate camp like at B8 - so their roleplay gets better as a unit.

Concerning the threadstarter initiative.
Let's brainstorm the ingame Brigade/Regiment HQ idea a bit more.
OK, if no static HQ staff - let a minimum of 3-5 staff dudes/officers/whatever rotate on manning the HQ by means of a roster.
I don't mind being the radio dude again, but not until the relevant faction commanders agree on how that radio traffic is being used. I therefore step back from that until further - meaning I cannot guarantee I'm playing that role until we agree on a functional game HQ concept.

1. If Berget wants a functional artillery unit - let's do it right and let those guys roleplay true coordinated fire support - directed from the faction HQ, based on ingame map coordinates. I was really looking forward to plot some fire missions - only to discover an epic COM failure and no such mission data coming for our HQ. We basically never got any HQ fire missions. This is poor game designing and must not be repeated.

2. Using an artillery unit to capture a roadblock is - to say the least - totally unrealistic for, yes --> an artillery unit. Let the infantry do that before the arty is set up at that location.

3. THEN, after the arty unit is placed where it's wanted - let's have its missions prioritized by the friendly units needing it the most. If you're out there and being swamped by OPFOR - that's when you need that gunship or arty. This year's epic info-flow failure would be too stupid to repeat.

4. If Berget-Events wants to control the use of that artillery unit - they should do it via the roleplayed Brigade HQ - for realism and game motivation.

5. Perhaps Berget has reached its maximum participant number and infrastructure limitations already? You better get the formula right for 1400 players before extending the number of attending airsofters.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

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Post by Blackwolf » 11 Jul 2011, 03:34

Hello

I have to agree with TIGER_1 in most aspects of the HQ roles.

I spent over 3 months organizing a HQ and at the end i had 2 people working with me, because i appointed them at the gamestart.

Sometimes it was me alone.

Berget crew needs to b more in the HQs to help out if we are without men in a HQ Staff.

regards

Blackwolf
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BERGET 6 NATO PLATOON LEADER
BERGET 7 NATO COMPANY COMMANDER
BERGET 8 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
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BERGET 10 NAF ALL THE WAY
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motorhead
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Post by motorhead » 11 Jul 2011, 08:16

Gentlemen trustees and Berget-Events AB, this game is now getting so big in unit size, radio traffic and information masses that there must be some kind of organized information management in place.

If the ingame trustees and BE cannot agree about this - grab your radios and sketch out a new plan taking this into account. This game is already showing design faults that need to be adressed in that respect.

A faction Brigade/Regimental HQ can adress many of the info management and motivational problems participants raise on this forum. Especially tasking or informing players RTB, spawning or looking for new tasks after respawn can be handled far better that way.

I happen to know this especially from this year - when many Poldavian players wanted to know the whereabouts of their units and get back into the fight after R&R or respawn in their base. The radio problems prevented us from that this year, but this being the worlds biggest airsoft game I feel we should do something about it - especially when airsoft operations operate 3-4 batallion size units from one single camp location.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

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Post by Lex » 11 Jul 2011, 09:21

Tiger_1 wrote:If every one was given all the info, we would all stand around listing to radioes and phones.
from the other side of view, i, as private solder, want know more about global situation. It's a part of fun in big games too, imho.
For example, during morning breef tell solders about what they have done yesterday (f.e. blocking road, so opposite side didn't get reinforses and our other unit took TP and so on). And tell them what is going to be today. (or better write it on INFO desk).
I think it will help all of us be more interested in missions and bring feeling of being part of it.


+1 to remake rules about medics. Let wounded man (under orange flag, i mean) use only one leg and one hand, when he is moving with smbd help. This won't allow wounded to run. The main idea: make it more hardcore, like in RL.
B7: Orlov's Mercs, 1st Russian coy, 1st platoon, 1st squad
B8: 1st Poldavian batalion, 3rd Russian coy, 1st platoon, 4th squad
B9: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers, 1st Russian coy, 2nd platoon, 3rd squad
B10: ****, * Russian coy, * platoon, * squad

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Post by freno » 11 Jul 2011, 09:50

Let us make an agreement in starting the game 22:00 Wednesday, or what it will be stated next year!

I was blamed to send out "scouts" before GS, and we was shot at after only 20min after GS. Fast traveling? I have info that our base was maped before GS.
I have also info that guys was battleready all mornings before GS... That´s cheating!?

"It is absolutely prohibited to enter/attack/sneak up to a base during game off."
For me that means also during sleeping-time.
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B13 - Mr. PINK
B14 - BBB - V.President
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Post by A_Muller » 11 Jul 2011, 10:20

Pre-mapped bases was a problem, hell, in the main safe we could've just asked the crew where the poldavian base was, just as we asked where the NAF base was and no one checked if we were POL or NAF.
Only a few hours after gamestart we had 100+ poldavians about 150 meters from our base perimiter...
B5: RTO, NATO Rangers
B9: Platoon Leader, NAF Rangers, Bravo 5

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Post by grasulas » 11 Jul 2011, 10:28

First I want to see a list with all the complains reported to BC, I want to see how many people have been reported and punished or clear of any charges.

Let me clarify, I had no problems during my game this year, but is very, very frustrating when my enemy comes and starts to congratulate me for fair play and start complain about my fellows poldavians, is very frustrating when my friends from NAF and civilian faction told me HORROR stories about people not taking hits or ignoring any safety rules using class 3 weapons to clear a bunker using auto fire, leaving the man inside with bloody lacerations on arms and legs.

YES I want to see what has been done in this matter, and I know for sure that complains have been made, some of them in writing.

For next Berget I want to see more GM in the hot areas, I want to see more aleatory cronos on the guns IN THE FIELD.
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Post by Baron » 11 Jul 2011, 11:33

grasulas wrote:First I want to see a list with all the complains reported to BC, I want to see how many people have been reported and punished or clear of any charges.

Let me clarify, I had no problems during my game this year, but is very, very frustrating when my enemy comes and starts to congratulate me for fair play and start complain about my fellows poldavians, is very frustrating when my friends from NAF and civilian faction told me HORROR stories about people not taking hits or ignoring any safety rules using class 3 weapons to clear a bunker using auto fire, leaving the man inside with bloody lacerations on arms and legs.

YES I want to see what has been done in this matter, and I know for sure that complains have been made, some of them in writing.

For next Berget I want to see more GM in the hot areas, I want to see more aleatory cronos on the guns IN THE FIELD.
+1 I couldn't agree more!
B15: Platoon Commander (NAF Mech)
B14: Platoon Commander (NAF Mech)
B13: Commander (GCT Mech)
B12: Platoon Commander (UniSec Mech)
B11: Medic (GCT)
B10: Medic (PSYOPS)
B9: Medic (UN)
B8: Medic (PSYOPS) - Civilian Medic
B7: Medic (Nato)
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Post by Panzergraf » 11 Jul 2011, 12:19

Lex wrote:+1 to remake rules about medics. Let wounded man (under orange flag, i mean) use only one leg and one hand, when he is moving with smbd help. This won't allow wounded to run. The main idea: make it more hardcore, like in RL.
(assuming you're talking about letting wounded players crawl by themselves)

A rule similar to this has been used at a big game here in Norway once.
It didn't work very well and led to some pretty lame situations that were not at all realistic. It did more to ruin immersion than to improve on it, really.
Thankfully, it has not been used since.
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Post by Lex » 11 Jul 2011, 12:37

Panzergraf wrote:
Lex wrote:+1 to remake rules about medics. Let wounded man (under orange flag, i mean) use only one leg and one hand, when he is moving with smbd help. This won't allow wounded to run. The main idea: make it more hardcore, like in RL.
(assuming you're talking about letting wounded players crawl by themselves)
no, moving only with smbd help, not themselves (as it in rules now). But with real help, not just with holding wounded by the hand.


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B7: Orlov's Mercs, 1st Russian coy, 1st platoon, 1st squad
B8: 1st Poldavian batalion, 3rd Russian coy, 1st platoon, 4th squad
B9: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers, 1st Russian coy, 2nd platoon, 3rd squad
B10: ****, * Russian coy, * platoon, * squad

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Post by Alberto » 11 Jul 2011, 22:08

Tiger_1 wrote:I do not disagree with the joint hq (my idea for berget 8 ) I just don't see how you will get people to man it. Making it free MIGHT help, but I am not sure, we have been lucky that motorhead has done this for us two years now..
Most bn at berget are in fact litle bigger then real life companies, they do not require a static hq uless the commander feels he needs one.

A info board might sound good, but it will not work. That is my statement, and feel free to try, and then we can see after who is right ;)
Airsofters are inherently lazy, if they can't read the rules of the game they are coming to, or the forum for their side, why should they suddenly seek information on their own at the game? No it seems it is better to wait until after the game, and then sit and say "nobody told me anything" my initial response then is always, "did you ask?" because if you don't ask, people will not tell you, this is not something that only aplys to airsoft, in a job the same thing will happen if you don't take an intrest.
Above is sober-minded opinion about how things really are.

Making more rules will not change player's attitude and make them follow it. More control from GM and trustees would improve situation to a certain level, but with a 1,5K players in the field with age being the only limitation we should net be naive about the quality of the players.
Hopefully, with increasing number of participants Berget crew will accept increasing responsibility and have more and better prepared GMs next year.

As for the command structure, in my opinion, Berget is on the right track by dividing the sides into battalions (companies actually). With such sizes of groups and good leaders (..cough.. like our Tiger:-)cough) it is still possible to control us. Higher HQ could and should consist of Berget crew people for directing major goals and intents and providing technical side of communication. As many said before me, commander role has never been very grateful so finding highest HQ staff will be get more and more problematic with every new game.

Another suggestion to Berget crew which we discussed with our team (maybe not realistic) is to differentiate the game fee by the group you play in and maybe by the weapon you use. We saw unusual high number of machine guns this year. If you want to ride the berget truck and spray bbs at the enemy - pay double.

Just my $0,02.
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Post by Spof » 11 Jul 2011, 22:21

motorhead wrote:"Ask not what Berget can do for you.
Ask what YOU can do for Berget!"

:cooltank: :team:
More of that thinking 8)
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Post by Os » 11 Jul 2011, 22:39

A_Muller wrote:Pre-mapped bases was a problem, hell, in the main safe we could've just asked the crew where the poldavian base was, just as we asked where the NAF base was and no one checked if we were POL or NAF.
Only a few hours after gamestart we had 100+ poldavians about 150 meters from our base perimiter...
This was and old gamesite used many times, wasnt a hard guess were the naf base was.
If we get to a new gamesite i agree but harnosand area is to well know to many players.
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Post by A_Muller » 11 Jul 2011, 22:55

I know, but we also saw poldavian private vehicles rolling up by our base pre-game.
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B9: Platoon Leader, NAF Rangers, Bravo 5

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