Debriefing Berget 13.

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 13
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Lurch
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Lurch » 05 Jul 2015, 20:03

No joo joo enough about the Bad weather :) i hate sunny. Misty rainy day and plus 17 is the best airsoft weather
let the power of airsoft compel you

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Helvetica » 05 Jul 2015, 22:53

Holy Sh.. i cant believe it, what i am reading here... We had no Information about the whole Situation of the civilians, about the exist of ingame Money or props, what other parts of GCT are doing etc. etc.

The Area:
Harnösand is a beautiful place and very nice to Play Airsoft. The Base of the GCT way placed really bad, because we had to start every fu**ing day with a misson, involves about 2 hours climbing a mountain. If placing GCT Camp there, make sure, GCT is able to capture at least CP 10 and 11 permanently, so their troops can set up small fieldcamps up there.

The Logistics:
We arrived at Monday, 03.30 and parked our car at the offgame Zone and slept there for about 4 hours. Like last year. We thought, that we could go to our Base on Monday, help Setting the last things up, helping the HQ organising Stuff and set up our camp, like we did last year at the BoPo. But we were told, that Bases are just opend after check-in... Well so we took a Hotel in the City and checked in the next day. How were we surprised, when we arrived at our base and not everything was set up... But the Rest of the BE provided logistic was good. enough toilets, fresh water, a Kiosk, even a shower... things we did not have last year (Well we had Water and shared 1 toilet with the PMC).

The Organisation of the GCT
What a pain in the ass, 0 Information bevore games from our commander (GCT 1st infantry) before Gamestart, ikaros had much more Players, bavs, vehicles.... We were told that IKAROS will not be able to attack our base with troops bigger than small squads. Because we are the attacking force. But how can you be the attacking force, if there is no way to hold CPs permanently?
Our HQ was empty very often (or should i say, at the Para HQ was no one who had Information about 1st inf). Dear commander, if you send out a half a platoon for a Mission to capture as many cps as they can get at 05.00 please be awake before 11.00... And give them the Information, which Points are ours.. we spent about 2 hours total, Walking from CP to CP which were already ours... our friend at the base told us, HQtent was empty and Monitor switched off... and if This half platoon is Holding CP6 at 13.00 do not expect them to hold this CP for many hours more without reinforcement against 2 platoons.. We are no machines, we cant run through the forest for 8 hours and fight against reds for other hours without reinforcement.. if we could, we would have joined the Rangers :-) How can you evenplan a Mission that big, without thinking to help your troops out there?

Well we returned at 15.00 at our base, just to be told that we are really needed for an attack to CP10 (really? climbing the --- SPAM !!! ---**g hill after 10 hours of marching and climbing?) This were just examples for other missions and Actions who went the wrong way... good stuff planned, but not planned trough...


Krasnovo and the civilians
If GCT is supposed to "free" krasnovo and the civilians, give them informations about this, how to behave (ONLY Information we got was "the civilians are our friends"

So when we entered the City with 4 Players on friday 09.00 just to make contact to them by our own bevore going up to CP6, they were unfriendly and hated the GCT, as what i heard, they liked the ikaros even more at this Point. So no larping this year for GCT soldiers... liked my Position last year much better. As BorderPolice we had contact with civilians and nice larping, and we had nice airsoftfights and some milsim. thats what makes BE for me. A good mix, where each Player can decide what he wants to Play. Pure milsim, pure LARP, Speedball, or a mix of it.

Civilians did a very hilarious Job! You played your Roles realy cool, i liked it! Keep this System for the future!

BAVs
Use Bavs for Balance... not for whatever you used them this year.


GM:
Did a good Job! Much more GMs on big fights than last year, and i think the cheating wasnt that bad in "big" fights. Thanks for your effort!

My Game:
We were at the 3rd Platoon, GCT 1st Infantry... one of 2 full platoons out of 5... We (14 Players from SwissOps) and some other swiss guys did a great Job, together with our norwegian friends and some swedish guys. We got splitted up prety fast and operated very often just as small Groups, but when we had bigger missions, it was a pleasure fighting with you!
I liked the first evening, where we should hold CP10 against much more reds... Was really fun but the rules should be more clear about camping a respawn Point and how to handle this Point, if enemy is all around, but you are still allowed to respawn... 8 enemies waiting with full-auto from all sides until respawntime cant be the solution. Was good work, and had some fun with finnish guys, which i shot out from a hole in the ground. The one who got me in the end, did a really nice knifekill :-) Funny Part: Red guys arguing with my friend who hided up on a tree (about 3m over ground) and calling a GM to get him down. GMs reaction: shoot him down, its not against the rules. :-) liked it. there i experienced the few cheating this game... and also some unfair Players... if you find a single enemie next to the street, you dont shoot him until he is hit, then shoot him 5 seconds longer with full Auto (about 4 Players) and run actross the street to shoot him from 4m.. again with fullauto... this is how you get punched in the face... but after this, the firing stopped, so nobody was harmex exept my face with some bleeding wounds.. could be worse but please stay fair! On the other side, just to mention it, i experienced very much Fairplay. perfectly hided Players shouting "sorry" for a headshot, even if they have to give up their hiding place after!

We did not get much orders from HQ and organised ourselfes with the german Mechs (thanks to judgement) We paid them with swiss chocolate. We found out, that this is a propper article of value for everyone. Good to know, we bring more next year. Walking, climbing, taking CPs, was Kind of the rest of our missions... But we had fun! At the last day, the big try to free krasnovo, we hold the Hospital until the End (nice to meet you civilian guy, who crawled into the Hospital tied up :D ) You tasted the new swiss power medicine, so you were heald much faster :-)

There should be more precice rules about the town... f.E. are you allowed to shoot out trough the gap between the wall and the Roof (we were visible from outside, so they could get us also)

Speaking about rules... make more precise, if it is allowed to drive offgame behind enemies base, Transport about 2 platoons to there and attack them from behind without Walking really far... this happend at least once or twice a day... was cool Action but Kind of sinking the Moral, if our troops have to walk 2hours ingame to reach the other base, and they just can use 10 minutes of offgameroads

After all, we had a really nice time but there are much things you can improve for next year. Most things had been already mentioned


Last but not least, A BIG THANK YOU to all BE-Staff, the GCT, the Civilians, the enemies and of course also People form Harnösand! Was a pleasure, and we will return next year again with SWISS-OPs, hopefully with a vehicle! :cooltank:

PS: biggest disappointement was the beerparty... heard lots of great things from other years, when we couldnt partizipate... this year it was a Little lame... :team:
B12 - GCT Border Police, Swiss-OPs
B13 - GCT Infantry, 3rd Platoon, Swiss-OPs
B14 - NAF Infantry, Echo 1, Swiss-OPs
B15 - UPIR Heavy Weapons and Demolition Unit, Swiss-OPs
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Arradin » 05 Jul 2015, 23:12

Helvetica wrote: Krasnovo and the civilians
If GCT is supposed to "free" krasnovo and the civilians, give them informations about this, how to behave (ONLY Information we got was "the civilians are our friends"

So when we entered the City with 4 Players on friday 09.00 just to make contact to them by our own bevore going up to CP6, they were unfriendly and hated the GCT, as what i heard, they liked the ikaros even more at this Point. So no larping this year for GCT soldiers... liked my Position last year much better. As BorderPolice we had contact with civilians and nice larping, and we had nice airsoftfights and some milsim. thats what makes BE for me. A good mix, where each Player can decide what he wants to Play. Pure milsim, pure LARP, Speedball, or a mix of it.
There were plenty of larping with the GCT on the second half of the game ( after you 'freed' the city for the first time after a huge firefight on the ... Thursday?Friday? cant remember.

BUT, the first thing Ikaros did at GAME ON, was to spread propaganda and lies about the GCT. How you were going to rape our women and steal our children. We were also told that you had Artillery, and they helped us practise on what to do in case of an airstrike on the town ( which they said WOULD happen, cause GCT are bad people ).
They were also VERY nice to us and gave us lots of things and helped us build the city more, so why WOULDNT we trust them ;)

In the end, most of us picked the GCT side as friends... Err.. which seemed to be wrong, as you bombed the living S**T out of us :D

Good times, good times!
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Tiger_1 » 05 Jul 2015, 23:45

Not to rock the boat, but I have played the GTC base area twice, and never had to climb up and over speksta. There is trails both sides that let you move company elements around with little more then a brisk walk to the crossroads below point 10.. Last game we had in that base the repeater worked and we had only minor problems with coms.
It seems Berget might be supporting radio coms less this year? I must admit that my own hq shocked me with not having a plan to use the large nr of freq provided to make a proper c2 system based on radio coms. As that is what a large nr of players have. Berget seemed to have provided enough freq, just seems to be bad repeaters and no overall comm plan from hq.
Last edited by Tiger_1 on 05 Jul 2015, 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Helvetica » 05 Jul 2015, 23:45

Arradin wrote:
Helvetica wrote: Krasnovo and the civilians
If GCT is supposed to "free" krasnovo and the civilians, give them informations about this, how to behave (ONLY Information we got was "the civilians are our friends"

So when we entered the City with 4 Players on friday 09.00 just to make contact to them by our own bevore going up to CP6, they were unfriendly and hated the GCT, as what i heard, they liked the ikaros even more at this Point. So no larping this year for GCT soldiers... liked my Position last year much better. As BorderPolice we had contact with civilians and nice larping, and we had nice airsoftfights and some milsim. thats what makes BE for me. A good mix, where each Player can decide what he wants to Play. Pure milsim, pure LARP, Speedball, or a mix of it.
There were plenty of larping with the GCT on the second half of the game ( after you 'freed' the city for the first time after a huge firefight on the ... Thursday?Friday? cant remember.

BUT, the first thing Ikaros did at GAME ON, was to spread propaganda and lies about the GCT. How you were going to rape our women and steal our children. We were also told that you had Artillery, and they helped us practise on what to do in case of an airstrike on the town ( which they said WOULD happen, cause GCT are bad people ).
They were also VERY nice to us and gave us lots of things and helped us build the city more, so why WOULDNT we trust them ;)

In the end, most of us picked the GCT side as friends... Err.. which seemed to be wrong, as you bombed the living S**T out of us :D

Good times, good times!
Thats what i thought, for me, as a non-larper in General (just at berget) it was first a Little bit shocking, but then i remembered, that you all are larper, who Play their role through... was cool to see. And on saturday we had cool contact with the rebelling civilians and defended the Hospital until the End :-) (and we forced rico, to like the GCT for a few minutes, how, that will stay our secret :-) ) Hope to have more contact with you guys next year!

But the big part of the infantry did not get much Chance to interract with you during the game before saturday, too less Information, too less Information in that direction... mostly there were playeres on their own Mission, or small Groups with Special missions.
B12 - GCT Border Police, Swiss-OPs
B13 - GCT Infantry, 3rd Platoon, Swiss-OPs
B14 - NAF Infantry, Echo 1, Swiss-OPs
B15 - UPIR Heavy Weapons and Demolition Unit, Swiss-OPs
B16 - NAF Infantry, Alpha-03, Swiss-OPs, Platoonleader
B17 - 110:th Special Investigation Unit (hopefully)

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by L4gi » 06 Jul 2015, 01:06

Helvetica, Rico was not part of the story this year. Thank god...
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by wormbyte » 06 Jul 2015, 08:19

L4gi wrote:Helvetica, Rico was not part of the story this year. Thank god...

Apart from the moment when one of his loyalists tried to deliver a present from Rico, which was a grenade placed right in the middle of the GCT/Para Inf HQ tent. Para CO, XO and a company commander escaped unharmed. However the culprit did not, and was still being wiped off the inside of the tent several days later.

Needless to say, we conducted a security review immediately afterwards. :?

How did we survive?

Because the attacker had not prepared the grenade correctly, and his fumbling of the device bought us enough time to make it to safety. :wank:

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by vinni » 06 Jul 2015, 11:04

Speaking about rules... make more precise, if it is allowed to drive offgame behind enemies base, Transport about 2 platoons to there and attack them from behind without Walking really far... this happend at least once or twice a day... was cool Action but Kind of sinking the Moral, if our troops have to walk 2hours ingame to reach the other base, and they just can use 10 minutes of offgameroads
I can't speak for all of Ikaros, as there very well might've some guys who did that, but no such orders were made by HQ.
The only off-game transport of personnel behind your lines we were allowed (but never did) was the exfil and re-insertion of OP teams if they got into arguments about staying close to the GCT base during game-off hours. They would then be pulled out and put back in just before 0900 (but as stated, that never happened).

As for the 2 platoons arriving at the back of your base, I assume you're talking about the base assault on Friday? Those guys walked.
Cerberus started moving between 0500 and 0530, the Infantry was moving out by 0700.
Given the amount of Ranger activity Cerberus came into contact with on their way in, I'm somewhat surprised that they never reported the movement of about 3 Infantry companies.

Concerning Rico's involvement, he wasn't with us physically, but he was in spirit as most former Ravens kept the Raven role and just resumed the fight with the GCT from a year ago.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by diamid » 06 Jul 2015, 11:29

I can confirm what Vinni has written.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by NightSinner » 06 Jul 2015, 17:22

vinni wrote:
Speaking about rules... make more precise, if it is allowed to drive offgame behind enemies base, Transport about 2 platoons to there and attack them from behind without Walking really far... this happend at least once or twice a day... was cool Action but Kind of sinking the Moral, if our troops have to walk 2hours ingame to reach the other base, and they just can use 10 minutes of offgameroads
I can't speak for all of Ikaros, as there very well might've some guys who did that, but no such orders were made by HQ.
The only off-game transport of personnel behind your lines we were allowed (but never did) was the exfil and re-insertion of OP teams if they got into arguments about staying close to the GCT base during game-off hours. They would then be pulled out and put back in just before 0900 (but as stated, that never happened).

As for the 2 platoons arriving at the back of your base, I assume you're talking about the base assault on Friday? Those guys walked.
Cerberus started moving between 0500 and 0530, the Infantry was moving out by 0700.
Given the amount of Ranger activity Cerberus came into contact with on their way in, I'm somewhat surprised that they never reported the movement of about 3 Infantry companies.

Concerning Rico's involvement, he wasn't with us physically, but he was in spirit as most former Ravens kept the Raven role and just resumed the fight with the GCT from a year ago.
We (Rangers) would have reported the enemy activity, however we found it difficult to report enemy activity to a sleeping HQ :wink:
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by vinni » 06 Jul 2015, 17:48

... That's a very good point you have there :P
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by JKangas » 06 Jul 2015, 19:33

Helvetica wrote:how to handle this Point, if enemy is all around, but you are still allowed to respawn... 8 enemies waiting with full-auto from all sides until respawntime cant be the solution.
I heard about similar incident or perhaps this very one and recall that rules for previous Bergets specifically stated that you cannot use respawn if it is under attack. Weirdly there is no specific mention now in the rules. For me it is a no-brainer that a respawn with enemy near it is not active and you need to go to another respawn.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Helvetica » 07 Jul 2015, 02:29

vinni wrote:
Speaking about rules... make more precise, if it is allowed to drive offgame behind enemies base, Transport about 2 platoons to there and attack them from behind without Walking really far... this happend at least once or twice a day... was cool Action but Kind of sinking the Moral, if our troops have to walk 2hours ingame to reach the other base, and they just can use 10 minutes of offgameroads
I can't speak for all of Ikaros, as there very well might've some guys who did that, but no such orders were made by HQ.
The only off-game transport of personnel behind your lines we were allowed (but never did) was the exfil and re-insertion of OP teams if they got into arguments about staying close to the GCT base during game-off hours. They would then be pulled out and put back in just before 0900 (but as stated, that never happened).

As for the 2 platoons arriving at the back of your base, I assume you're talking about the base assault on Friday? Those guys walked.
Cerberus started moving between 0500 and 0530, the Infantry was moving out by 0700.
Given the amount of Ranger activity Cerberus came into contact with on their way in, I'm somewhat surprised that they never reported the movement of about 3 Infantry companies.

Concerning Rico's involvement, he wasn't with us physically, but he was in spirit as most former Ravens kept the Raven role and just resumed the fight with the GCT from a year ago.

No, i did not mean tha Atackk at Friday Morning. there were attacks at friday evening, thursday evening etc... i had some offgametalk with the wounded ikarossoldiers (which we invented to a BBQ, because they gave us a really good fight)... and they told us, that they got dropped off at a road near our base and they will be picked up there again to go back.

@vinni, i did not think, that it was planned by your HQ, and i respected every attack, when the guys all walked the way! was a shame, that BE-Crew has shot them out before they reached the base

PS, i know rico wasnt part of the Game. Even when he got called out at the beerparty :-) The guy who im talking about, knows what i mean.
B12 - GCT Border Police, Swiss-OPs
B13 - GCT Infantry, 3rd Platoon, Swiss-OPs
B14 - NAF Infantry, Echo 1, Swiss-OPs
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Gladio » 09 Jul 2015, 15:13

Deb/Feedback from Gladio,GCT Rangers Unit Commander.

Hi all!

General:
AO. The area is pretty nice with many reference points and the size of it is reasonable. Terrain is quite demanding though and for being almost all the time on our feet requires a solid training but to us it wasn't a problem.

Comm. Unfortunately the radio transmission/reception wasn't very good. Worked now and then and many times we had to request a relay from some other Units or did a relay for some others many time with no joy at all.
The use of cell phones with the use of whatsup was a clever solution but the connection wan't good in many spots.
The BE phone (mine like the one of Parzi) had some problems and I wasn't able to get in touch with my HQ and other Commanders many times.

Base Camp. Good position but quite difficult to protect and defend. Good general organization. The new big tents were very useful and allowed many of my men to stay together and skip the setting up of other kind of shelters.

Rangers Deb

We started out our briefing sessions the day before Game start. Having already did a good job well in advance on the Forum we had only to stress and repeat what was previously discussed. The Detachments roster was already defined.
I had several talks with my men over SOPs and tactics and on what and how I would had liked things done. I'm glad I had 2 real Doctors,traumatologist and Irish Armed Forces Medic,that were overlooking and monitoring the entire Unit. Especially Wayne Furlong,Irish Armed Forces,was very professional and supportive the whole time from the very beginning till after the end of the Game. Being a Commander I was very happy to have such a professional support and the entire Unit really appreciated that too. The morale was high since the first day and everyone in the Ranger Unit did a great job and hiked for more than 40K. I asked the 2 Finnish Dets to be of an example to the others Dets in which not everyone had a military experience. That worked very well. By the end of the Game all the Detachments were moving flawlessly,good road crossing tactics,support,security perimeter,silence,etc.etc.
I operated and commanded the Unit as I was tought in the Army. I always had briefings and debriefings with my Unit. Kept everybody updated about the general situation and about our orders and Tasks. I always wanted them to know what we were about to do and what was next. Most of all I wanted all of them to really enjoy themself and the game. That was my main target.
We did many missions and recons always in enemy territory and many times very close to they're base. We completed the laptop mission and some others. Some were decided on site by me when we had no further orders or due to lack of Comms.
We had some minor cases of blisters,dehydration,cold. We also had an injured enemy during an engagement that had a dislocated shoulder. The 2 medics treated that reducing the dislocation on site. The injured was escorted then to his home base by them.
Because of some lack of communications and orders several times we had to improvise and adapt to the situation always adhering to the main Task and strategy,always being mission oriented.
I may state the the Rangers did a great job and many times well beyond the call of duty.
I respectfully thanks all the Rangers and I'm looking forward to fight again side by side with them in the future.
I'm proud of you guys.

To GCT HQ.

General consideration. I was very happy to work with Parzi,Wormbite,Manolis,Ville,Andreas GM(Troll),Simon GM(Xistie),and all the others Commanders. Very good people with pretty good knowhow.
We had lots of briefings and meetings and worked well together. No doubt about that. What I think I that we needed more is to have some like 2 or 3 Commanders,with a kind of shift but at least 2,at the whole time in the HQ to manage the Units on the field having the "big picture" of the AO constantly clear and active.
A better communication system. Whatsup works good but having some at the HQ receiving the messages and passing those to the others with every other way of communication would have been better. Sometimes we had too many delays or the messages were late or just because you cannot have the phone in your hands at the all time.
I think that having a Team in the HQ at the all time would be better. Comm Officers and Strategy/Tactics Officers.
The repetitors and radio coverage should be improved.

CP. I would recommend to change the operation and use of those. It's useless to hike for kilometers,fight,get the CP after 30' and as soon as you leave, heading to the next OBJ, just one guy from the other faction could walk out of a bush and cap it again. I think that once taken the CP should remain blu or red for at least 2Hrs.

Transportation. A great thanks to those Germans that did a great job almost on call. Really, great guys that did a great job and many efforts to support everybody.
But we needed more trucks and vehicles. We Rangers many times requested exfil by helos or vehicles or any way of transportation but weren't available.
To have the QRF with quads is a very good idea but we needed more vehicles anyway. It's important strategically becuase the faster you move the better it is.

Supply. I may be wrong but this year the supply of mines,granade launchers,BAVS,anti tanks,etc. seemed very low.
With my Unit we had like 8 mines and 3 granade launchers. It's a too few pieces for a Unit like that.

Anyway I really enjoied myself,the guys I was with,and everyone from the GCT. I hope that my men could say that too.
Thanks to the GMs and the HQ. We had a very good communication and cooperation since March/April and that's very good.
Alex "Gladio" Rangers Commander
B 11 SFODU - Platoon Commander of H9
B 12 GCT RANGER - Platoon Commander of B4

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by M.Koho » 10 Jul 2015, 08:45

Uneven numbers are not really a problem, but uneven capabilities are. I see the problem about game being unbalanced like this:

Ikaros/Ravens usually had larger groups of players attending, for example usual attending group at Ikaros is 20-40 guys that already know each other and are able to form a working platoon ny themselves. In a way Ikaros gets eeady made platoons and commanders already knows the platoons or atleast their leaders. In GCT we had a lots of small teams, that are smaller than a single squad, formed together to make a unit. It is needless to say that who has the force multiplier on this.

Breaking this dynamic that ready made platoons end mostly on one side should be Berget-Events main focus concerning Berget 14, atleast I think so.

Edit: to make clear: I think invidual players are pretty much equally good in general terms, for some reason bigger teams were on Ikaros this year.
Migog
Tiera Airsoft
B8: Poldavia
B9: The Firm/Zansia
B10: Zansia
B11: GCT - SFODU
B12: GCT - HVIU/Jonathan Goodwill
B13: GCT - Rangers
B14: NAF - RANCOM Janitor
B15: FINBAT - Recon Platoon
B16: UPIR - HQ/TOC

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