Cheating as a strategy?

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 7.

Have you encountered the same cheating guys in italian camo?

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Post by jdoe » 30 Jun 2009, 07:09

I see a lot of talk about highcaps here, and wanted to give my input on that;

I used 2-3 weapons on this game, 2 AKs (Marui regular and a Kalash) and a Kart/Cyma M14. The M14 had bipods and highcap-box magazine on it, and the magazine was taped blue, as per rules. I don't see how I've broken any rules with that. The one weapon I meant to use on B7, and I had it with me, was an LR300, which I use with realcaps (approx. 30rd mags). I use realcaps whenever it is possible, for more realism and fun. Sadly, the gun's motor broke down just days before the trip, and I wasn't able to make it work for the game :(

I didn't hear highcap-rattle on my team, other than on LSWs and MGs. Maybe there was some, I don't know about Dog company, I didn't work with them, and they were camped far from our platoon. Dog was comprised of non-Finn players, and I don't know them, so I cannot voge for them. For my fellow countrymen, I can. I know personally about 70-80% of them, and have played with all.

Personally, I took 3 hits during this game. 1 in the ear, at our own base (our Btn 2IC dug out the pellet at respawn), 1 in the forehead at Hamburger Hill (a very good hit, whoever it was, smack in the middle!) and 1 long(ish) burst close range at Bashir City. They all were painful enough to be called out. The problem is, I'm used to yell "aargh!" instead of "hit!" and I know it's a problem at international games. BUT, I always, ALWAYS take my death rag, put it on my gun barrel, and lift it up in the air. So you if you've seen me enough to shoot me, you should also see I'm hit. This did not stop someone to shoot me at very close range on SRP base, almost to my balls, to inner thigh. It was painful and unnecessary, but the shooter apologized, and it was accepted. I also accepted being hit while having the death rag out on other occasions.

1 occasion I'm still sad about, I don't remember the place it went down, but I should've taken the hit, in retrospect. Something hit the side of my glasses, but at that moment, I figured it was ricochet, so I didn't take it. Thinking back, I should have, and whoever shot me, I apologize for not taking it.

Anyways, I think everyone should calm down. These threads always open after Berget, and they never end up well. Personally, I've criticized Italian players myself, but I don't recall any cheating from their part. Only bad gameplay in general. And on Saturday, we played against some great Italians at the South flank of BC. Thank you guys! :)
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Post by Bulow » 30 Jun 2009, 11:18

Nice thing was when I met Olle in the save zone on sunday morning and we made a deal that SRP will let us throught the bashir to assault NATO base.

When I was returning back and respawned after NATO base assault. Óur red asualt force (50 - 60 people) encountered italian batalion and obviously died.

I was the only one who survived I took my civilian badge and run into the bashir finding olle and telling him:

"In 15 minutes you have Italians in the city we will help you defend the city aginst them" Olle accepted than we called the marshalls in and obviously the blue boys start dying :)

So at least because of Italians we united with SRP.

So to make it short SRP as I understood had some experience with them as well.

I didnt understood why NATO behaved as war criminals pillaging the city and shooting civilians. At the end on sunday noon Orlow Coy 3 and 4 started evacuating city inhabitants to save them from the NATO. Shoulnt it have been the opposite?

Orlow being bad boys and nato Good boys?
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Post by Mathias_h » 30 Jun 2009, 11:35

The only cheating I experienced during the whole game was when NATO overran Milos Base.

The situation tok place on the cliffs, next to our base. I can hear a group of Nato soldiers on the cliff on top of me, somone shooting and someone got hitt "thump, thump", just on top of me, and people talking to eachother, "oh f*ck man, sorry about that".

Clearly friendly fire, so I think "this is my chance, now that they are confused", and I jump up from the place where I am hiding and see two guys with their backs turned to me, aprox. 5 meters away.
I put 2 bullets in the first one, and 2 more in the second guy.
And from 5 meters away, there should be no problem hitting a full grown man, and I had plenty of time as their backs was turned to me.

Whan I stand upp a litle bit more, looking for a 3:rd target, the first guy turns around and completley sprays me full auto from 5 meters.
I Call my hit and put my deathrag on.
I thought 5 meters would be an OK distance for my gun, making around 360 FPS, but his gun left bleeding wounds in my arm.

Then I look at the first guy and tells him "both you and me knows that I didnt miss you with those shots" and he replies "ok then..." and puts his deathrag up. Didn't even bother talking to the second guy.

When the group started to move forward I aksed them which one got hit by friendly fire, and no one answered me, thay all just kept moving past me.

So this group of Nato soldiers managed to break 3 rules in 30 seconds.
1. Not taking their hits by friendly fire
2. Two of them not taking their hits by me.
3. Shooting me from 5 meters away with a gun that clearly had a safety distance of 10 meters.

Otherwise I have to say I am verry happy about the sportsmanship and good spirit of ALL the players I met! It was a verry fun game!
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Post by Erwin » 30 Jun 2009, 14:33

I just don't understand where do you get this power to fight?
Calling someone cheaters is just so plain stupid.
I can't even recall when was the last time I did it, probably gave it up years ago.

Plastic pellets, long ranges and gear.

I personally use Interceptor, helmet, neck gaiter and groin plates, in addition to backpack, camelbak, knee- and elbow-pads, so yeah, the weight starts to gather. Sometimes it is so hard to recognize the hits, especially if Im running, so I try to understand others.

Also, secondly, people usually are too positive about their weapons reach and range. To some 15 meters a little confidence is allowed, but after, it would be better just to shoot until the receiving end screams. You just can't never ever be sure about the hit.

Thirdly, the plastic pellets just don't penetrate anything, get used to it. This almost reminds me of last years iron-pellets.

I personally did not even see alive enemies in the whole game, no red, orlov nor SRP. Mainly was I just fired upon.

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Post by grasulas » 30 Jun 2009, 15:43

i want to start by telling that BEERGET 7 was my first berget, theoretical many will say i`m a noob, and still i can tell you i don`t had any major problems with ppl calling the hits.

yes i had some minor problems with players that call the hits and wait for a medic or go to base for respawn but they don't put the orange flag right away and that is very confusing when you have 10-15 ppl close one to another, or with players that prefer to scream for medic or hit in there own language, the rules are rules and i think that two words like medic and hit should be shouted in English not Finnish, or Russian, or Italian.

that was all i can say and respect for all those who play this super game.

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Post by Windi^ » 30 Jun 2009, 16:16

grasulas wrote: or with players that prefer to scream for medic or hit in there own language, the rules are rules and i think that two words like medic and hit should be shouted in English not Finnish, or Russian, or Italian.
That's true. Sometimes it just slips out in native language. It's mainly because you are use to do it. I always corrected my scream and used also "hit" and "medic" so that others can understand it also. But we also used Finnish and this is because it is easier to our medics then to know where a friendly guy is. I don't count it as cheating or breaking the rules if I use English and Finnish at the same time.
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Post by SWATTELAPESCA-UFO » 30 Jun 2009, 20:42

I'm afraid to hear about italian cheating players.
It was my first Berget, but I'm 15 years experienced player so I think I can spent some word about this kind of game: in the wood you are never sure that you have hit someone. A little branch can deflect BB. Some people shoot without the bullets leave the barrel, etc, etc.
In Italy AEGs over 1 joule are illegal, so many italian player have used AEG with muzzle velocity 99 m/s with 0,20BB.

1) black sheeps are in every family;
2) people of other country was wear italian camo (Vegetata);
3) I have seen many SRP and Orlov's mercs was cheating (and I haven't open a post for this!);
4) one sniper SRP was hit by me, after he shot in the direction of a mine and then he fired upon me (less than 10 meters), when I said "what you do?" I was offended before in english, after in a Slavic language (but "curva..." I know what mean)... a stupid marshall was two feet to me, I told him "you have seen and heard? Take your ID number!", but the marshall did not know what to do... so I have shout HIT and went to respawn point.
5) many Orlov's Mercs return to their base through Bashir City with orange flag (less road to do);
6) We have seen about 40 Orlov's who were eating comfortably with the orange hat (we have ever eaten in game-on mode);
etc, etc.
YOU live Berget as YOU prefer.
Lima Company was one of the the largest forces in the field, then we have been in many fights, probably the same cheaters were seen in different situations.
I hope!
Some italian cheater identified was reported by us to the command, next year this guys will not be in Sweden!
There's no "cheating strategy" in Lima Coy.
Just smile&wave!
Last edited by SWATTELAPESCA-UFO on 01 Jul 2009, 12:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mrklimkin » 30 Jun 2009, 21:22

First... sorry for my rusty english!
For second i'm happy for my first berget and i hope to come next year...
i'm afraid like swattela for the italian cheaters.
I was in Lima company, sierra 6, when we attack some french players in orlov faction, they said that in our attack group " not in our squad" they find cheaters, we apologize and we search the cheater with them.we don't find him but we talk with our squad leader to find the cheater...
I'm sorry if a lot of italians cheat...
i apologize for each italian that cheat...
but i'm only one, like swattela.
I see someone inother faction that cheat when i shot... no problem for me.. i shot again and again and again...
i Shoot until orange!!!!
I know is frustrating when you shot and in the other side they don't call hit...
but is a game...
if one or two or ten cheats... they are stupid and puerile.
I will keep in my mind only thebeautyfull moments in game... untill next year!

Hiii Guyyys!

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Post by Ocelot » 30 Jun 2009, 21:41

Like an italian i am ashamed to read such things.
On my personal experience once during an attack a marshal or a trustee (i can't remember) told me that an italian boy with NATO written on his armband didn't take his hit and prefeered to escape, it was the only one problem I evere had in this game.

I think to generalize is always wrong, surely not all italian didn't take their hits. We've also met some slovenian guys on the road to stoccolma making compliments to us for our fairplay, and i underline that not only italian players were wearing the italian camo in the NATO camp.

I hope the bad experience you report doesn't give you a bad idea of all the italian players, like swattela remebered there always are black sheeps...

Hope to see u next year

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Post by Voron13[Woodcats] » 30 Jun 2009, 22:32

Hi all!

Can anyone from NATO or GM can accept/reject this:

at 9:00 on Saturday, just before artillery strike on NATO base ALL italian group was outside the NATO base and ready to work?
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Post by mrklimkin » 30 Jun 2009, 22:35

i was not ready and like me i thin at least other 5 italians .

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Post by Shooter » 30 Jun 2009, 23:03

Voron13[Woodcats] wrote:Hi all!

Can anyone from NATO or GM can accept/reject this:

at 9:00 on Saturday, just before artillery strike on NATO base ALL italian group was outside the NATO base and ready to work?
I think everyone was busy preparing them self for battle so they didn't give a flying f*ck about anyone else. :D
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Post by jry2000 » 30 Jun 2009, 23:49

Cptn_Norman wrote:The worst "cheating" experience for me happend on saturday.
First a Milotigerdude shot one of my teammates with 8-12 shots (full auto) from 2 meter distance. luckily he didnt get injured couse the burst started on his leg and stopped around the torso area.
Cptn_Norman, I have to disagree with your statement, because the it's simply not true.

If you refer to incident at Bashir City, that your guy did not reflect "Bang Bang rule" first. My teamleader pointed his gun on him and said "You're DEAD" when your dude had his gun relaxed (without firing). Somehow your dude was the only one (of 2-3 people in that incident) who did not accept bang-bang-rule. Once your dude grabbed a gun and tried to shoot on my leader, my teamleader acted and fired in self defense and hit your guy at least into leg.

The gun my leader hit your guy has been chroned to 99m/s and loaded with our standard 0.23g BB's and we were willing to provide re-chroning on demand on place if it has been needed. I have no doubt that it was painful for him because of the sitting position he took, but we're not playing the game to hurt enemies. We respect safety rules and act appropriately.

Please refer to official rules to firing distance ->
1...............0 to 109 m/s.........1 meters.......Semi and full auto

Please do not accuse us of cheating when we act strictly within rules.
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Post by yasirotta » 01 Jul 2009, 00:46

"Have you encountered the same cheating guys in italian camo?"

I must say all diddnt.
There was one group of Italians, playing NATO side. There was one female medic and i get as prison at place called "bunker". That time some other group made attack, and all that group took their hits. No problem. This group was ok, and you you guys remind me i must say i enjoyed that moment, it was fun :)

But that other guys who raised finger after being hit, diddnt knew anything about the rules. Always there is something minor things, like running and dont notice if hit, thinking it was bouncing bb and dont take hit etc. etc.
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Post by Tunkis » 01 Jul 2009, 02:03

The question of people taking hits is one of the most ordinary after a big game. Hence there is a need for debate about it, but in many cases I believe that this is a waste of time. Yes, there are people that don´t take their hits, this is caused by a number of factors like: people dosn´t register them because of gear, aren´t hit (Yes, some times our 6 mm dosn´t fly like real bullets and with that accuracy) and a number of factors that make people dosn´t call hits.

And yes, there are people that don´t call their hits even if they have registered them, I have encountered numerous occasions where players have been clearly shot and haven´t called their hits. For example when a orlov players runs up and fires on the NATO roadblock and at least 20 people lights him up and he just runs away clearly hit. This is one of a few moments where I have noticed that a player cheats and only on B7.

The point of this is the following:
Are you having a problem with a player not taking hits, talk to him a the scene and if that dosn´t work talk to a GM. Or just shoot him again and let the first time slip, because EVERYBODY misses hits. Don´t take this up on the forum after the game because that will just ruin the feeling after the game. And to be honest, the players which now are attacked with the thesis that they use cheating for a strategy will get their punishment sometime, so the witchhunt here is not needed.
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