three things to consider for the Berget Crew.

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 7.
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Kamikaze
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three things to consider for the Berget Crew.

Post by Kamikaze » 30 Jun 2009, 18:28

one: giving red/gray armbands to Milo's Tigers and red ones to Yuri Orlovs mercs was pure stupidity unless the Berget-crew acctually wanted to create total chaos and confussion. From my point of view it was no fun and really there was enough confusion as it was.

two: NATO-players need to be thouroughly informed about what the hell NATO is all about and what their ingame "mission" is. One thing is for sure it's not to massacre civilians (in churches on top of everything), plunder and execute their prisoners!

the strange thing is that the supposed toles ingame was completely reverted, NATO was the "bad guys" that killed, maimed, plundered and murdered whilst it was the drugies, mercs and criminals who acctually tried to protect the "innocent".

this fucked up allot of the ingame feeling.

three: People need to read the rules and regulation, every player must be able to recite the most basic safetyrules (wich can be done quickly at chrono (for example that you don't fire a 120 m/s weapon at point blanc range.

Also I heard about people chronoing with 0.25 bullets instead of 0.20 to sneak through too "hot" guns.

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motorhead
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Re: three things to consider for the Berget Crew.

Post by motorhead » 30 Jun 2009, 18:57

Kamikaze wrote: two: NATO-players need to be thouroughly informed about what the hell NATO is all about and what their ingame "mission" is. One thing is for sure it's not to massacre civilians (in churches on top of everything), plunder and execute their prisoners!

the strange thing is that the supposed toles ingame was completely reverted, NATO was the "bad guys" that killed, maimed, plundered and murdered whilst it was the drugies, mercs and criminals who acctually tried to protect the "innocent".

this fucked up allot of the ingame feeling.
Those "speedballers" knew exactly what they did and were not sent there by NATO HQ. We didn't know until things went haywire friday night - big scale.

Sadly this was more or less unknown to us at HQ until late Friday night, when we realized that bored elements from our campsite simply left their units, kitted up without our knowledge and harassed Bashir "just to get unstuck and fill the air with BB's for a while".

Bad radio com equipment (no 40w base-station as requested), a failing repeater and thus failing radio coverage led to unsatisfactory radio coverage in large parts of the game.

It would have been far better for the game if they had the brains to ask for more special missions and patrols instead of compromising the ingame NATO mission and mandate as they did. In reality these people spoiled the game setting and jeopardized their own batallion operations.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

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SenorDingDong
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Post by SenorDingDong » 30 Jun 2009, 19:09

It is an absolute shame that some felt the need to ruin the game for everyone else. And now, they have tarnished the name of all Nato players.
Perhaps next year these players should join a different team if they wanted more 'action'.

I know for a fact that India company followed all the rules, and Nato mandate down to the letter.
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Post by Eldoriath » 30 Jun 2009, 19:33

I learned during the game that the NATOs that attacked Bashir-city (repeatedly) was an out-break group acting without orders. But in them doing so it just went... odd. It ended up with all the other three fractions ganing up on NATO since we all were fed up with them attacking bashir-city all the time.

+1 about the armbands. It's hard to tell de difference, especially since armbands have a tendency to roll themselves upp and that can make the gray really hard to see. Combined with that some went with dark grey and a pretty dark jacket it could be hard enough to spot the grey, even if fully visible.

I realise this isn't as such berget events fault, but they could try come up with a 4th color for the Milo's to use. All grey would have been better, and perhaps all green for the civies, or maybe pink even.
B5. Russia.
OC2. Militia.
B6. NATO, Bravo coy, 3rd Plt commander
B7. Milos tigers, Sibiria coy, 3rd Plt commander
B8. Poldavian Psy-Ops, Plt commander
B9. UN, Coy commander

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Post by Os » 30 Jun 2009, 19:49

1. The chroing was a joke this year. No marks for the guns just someone that wrote player number and ms. Someone asked if they needed to chrone the handguns and the crew said no they didnt care aboute the handguns.

2. Ppl are kinda angry aboute the nato not doing what they were suppose to do in bashir. Hmmm wy didnt they do so? maby its because the game wasnt so good planed? Maby berget should consider that the game wasnt good planed? For my part i fell like I was the prop for the 20% of the players that love rp.

3. Dont fokus so much of the game at one spot (bashir city) spread the game more.

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Post by Ukkolzi » 30 Jun 2009, 20:00

Armbands should be made of rigid elastic material and provided by the Berget Events, even if it means some 3-5 EUR (boo-hoo) higher ticket cost.

The colours should be bright enough and easy to tell apart. Yellow, blue, light blue, red, purple, even light grey? Some nasty green might also work, but then again may be confused with yellow.

Something like these:
http://www.cheng.cam.ac.uk/research/sem ... /bit24.gif

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motorhead
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Post by motorhead » 30 Jun 2009, 20:11

Os wrote:2. Ppl are kinda angry aboute the nato not doing what they were suppose to do in bashir. Hmmm wy didnt they do so? maby its because the game wasnt so good planed? Maby berget should consider that the game wasnt good planed? For my part i fell like I was the prop for the 20% of the players that love rp.
There are some easy and legitimate solutions:
If one gets bored by lack of action, first ensure you got a radio for the relevant tasks ahead. Squad com won't do for COY or Bn OPS.

1. Ask chain-of-command for special missions, basecamp defense duty or patrol duty.

2. Plan your own alternative missions and forward to relevant ingame officer for approval.

3. Then execute and communicate appropriately on relevant radio net.

4. Ensure that your proposals are within the ingame NATO mandate:

From the game rules:

"NATO
NATO is on full alert in staging areas along the Liburania border. The mission is to counter any hostility between the fractions within the nation. The Air force is on standby to support the infantry and mechanized units.

Primary missions
Engaging hostile forces NATO are instructed to assault bases, large gatherings of hostiles and to disable all weapon systems to effectively cripple their offensive capabilities and stop them from further aggression.
To make a permanent dent against these warlords, NATO needs to destroy their means of income.

Civilians in Bashir-City must be protected to keep the global opinion in favour of the operation. Failure in doing this can result in funds being retracted."
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

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Post by Os » 30 Jun 2009, 20:18

motörhead wrote:
Os wrote:2. Ppl are kinda angry aboute the nato not doing what they were suppose to do in bashir. Hmmm wy didnt they do so? maby its because the game wasnt so good planed? Maby berget should consider that the game wasnt good planed? For my part i fell like I was the prop for the 20% of the players that love rp.
There are some easy solutions:
-If one gets bored by lack of action, first ensure you got a radio for the relevant tasks ahead. Squad com won't do for COY or Bn OPS.

1. Ask chain-of-command for special missions, basecamp defense duty or patrol duty.

2. Plan your own alternative missions and forward to relevant ingame officer for approval-

3. Ensure that your proposals are within the ingame NATO mand
I hear what you say but then I would get a misson that didnt have any purpuse. Its so stupid when someone from co comes iside our ten one day and says: if you wana have action get up cos 70 milos are wathing outside the base to attack 1 min over 9. And we got up and nothing happend.

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Post by Panzergraf » 30 Jun 2009, 20:19

SenorDingDong wrote:It is an absolute shame that some felt the need to ruin the game for everyone else. And now, they have tarnished the name of all Nato players.
Yeah, well I hope the other sides understand we were not all like that.
Seriously, knowing that other NATO companies ignored our ROE and mandate in the region was worse to me than not getting to shoot much.

Also, when a whole company (or how many they were) go and do something stupid and shitty like that, they attract a whole lot of attention, and are themselves contributing to BC being the place with all the action, drawing enemies away from those NATO forces in the field who actually follow orders.

When you think about it it's all very selfish.
Perhaps next year these players should join a different team if they wanted more 'action'.
This.
So much this.


I'm not saying you need to role play a whole lot with the civilians - I didn't at this game, but trying to imagine yourself in a real situation in Liburania, where going rogue like that would get you fired/court martialled or worse, is IMHO something that should be demanded of all participants.

BE isn't the most role play heavy game in the world, not even the most milsim oriented, but damnit, it's not a Speedball event either.

If someone don't like that, then he should stay at home.
Or go to a speedball tournament in stead. He'll get more triggertime, and the rest of us won't have to deal with a few guys ruining the game's atmosphere.



As for armbands:
Reduce the number of sides, and you won't need to combine colours.
This would also make the other sides large enough to take on NATO.

Three primary colours - three different sides. It aint that hard.

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Post by jdoe » 30 Jun 2009, 20:19

To Os.

:?

Are you for real!!??
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B8 - I/1.Coy/1st Pold.Inf, Platoon Ldr (Fox 1-0)
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Post by jdoe » 30 Jun 2009, 20:24

Panzergraf wrote: Yeah, well I hope the other sides understand we were not all like that.
Seriously, knowing that other NATO companies ignored our ROE and mandate in the region was worse to me than not getting to shoot much.
I totally understand that. I did in the game and I still do. I had plenty of good and friendly talks with NATO guys offgame, and many hard fights ingame, with weapons of course :D

And I saw many NATO men acting according to their RoE. More than enough to realize those who didn't were doing so from their own stupidity, not ordered to do so.
B16 - The Firm / Gun for hire
B15 - CPT/HQ/FinBat
B10 - 1st Coy CO / Zansian "Black Guard" Btn XO
B8 - I/1.Coy/1st Pold.Inf, Platoon Ldr (Fox 1-0)
B7 - SRP Fox Platoon 2IC/Arty FO
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Post by motorhead » 30 Jun 2009, 20:27

Os wrote: I hear what you say but then I would get a misson that didnt have any purpuse. Its so stupid when someone from co comes iside our ten one day and says: if you wana have action get up cos 70 milos are wathing outside the base to attack 1 min over 9. And we got up and nothing happend.
This airsoft game is more milsim than your home skirmishes.
In a real tactical situation you will also get unreliable intel and false alarms. And did you bring a radio with the correct frequencies along?

Your best option in that situation would be to take the initiative to some search & destroy patrols or special missions - approved by us at HQ and you with proper com. If Milo's didn't attack your camp at that point it may be either bad intel or simply wrong reports from our own base defense guards.

You had a heavily armed buggy ready for use. Volunteer for FAV ( Fast Attack Vehicle) missions and recon tasks next time around. But doing so without a radio means you have no way of giving us at HQ real-time intel and updates. Prepare better both mentally and logistically next time.
Last edited by motorhead on 30 Jun 2009, 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

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Post by FallenGuard » 30 Jun 2009, 20:58

I think some NATO Players were tired of the way the Game played, they said they wanted "to go out and kick some ass". This must have lead to situations like Bashir.

Personally, I didn't mind that so much even if there was no "Peacekeeping" to do like what I would expect from NATO... only fighthing other factions.

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Post by Seraph » 30 Jun 2009, 21:29

I think a lot of people should stay at home and attend regular weekend speedball games instead of trying to criticize attempts to improve Berget events by steering it towards more structured and rewarding milsim.

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Post by Ukkolzi » 30 Jun 2009, 21:46

I believe that the commanders of each faction are doing all they can to keep the game rolling. That is, trying to complete missions. For this, they need troops, and they need to know where they are. If you go to your own little commando missions / "vacations" / whatever without asking a permission, you are going to fuk up the game for your fellow players. If the leaders don't know where your squad is, they can't effectively plan any operations, let alone trust this particular bunch of mofos. If many people go AWOL, it's a chaos and nobody has fun.

You just have to accept the fact that there will be guard duty in a smelly mosquito infested foxhole, or the convoy you are expecting to ambush won't show up. On top of that, one should always remember that maneuvering hundreds of players WILL take time.

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