ingame Vehicles

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 7.
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[JH]crazydog
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Post by [JH]crazydog » 02 Jul 2009, 15:11

Plante wrote:
Panzergraf wrote:
jdoe wrote:Did the rules state that a vehicle can be stopped by shooting in the back window? I don't recall that.

But this is what happened to our van, which was OFFGAME. Damn good the back window did not brake. What if it was not us, but some local, real civilians?
I was with the platoon who fired at your back window.

First:
We had just been dropped off by car ourselves, one of the BE TGB's.
On the way there, we drove pas a bunch of Dead Milo's (or ORC's?), who btw. did not wear off-game rags and caused quite a bit of confusion.
We also observed those guys being loaded into vehicles, BE-owned trucks as well as your van.
None of these trucks wore off-game rags that we could see, so the driver of our vehicle advised us it would be a good idea to stop these vehicles and destroy them, denying your side the transport points.

Your van was recognized as an in-game vehicle, as it had picked up players. We were 110% certain it was not local civilians, otherwise we would never have fired.

However, the small orange flag in your front window was not easily seen, and we were not sure if it was a deadrag or a red ORC/Milo flag.
As it was on an in-game road, and we knew it was not a local civilian vehicle, we deemed it safe to shoot.

I know the guys who fired, and they were using stock weapons at around 100m/s, that together with the range should not have caused any damage to the vehicle, which I am happy to hear it didn't.


Next time, if you bring a vehicle to a game and drive it on in-game roads, be prepared that it might be hit. At the very least use better markings to mark it off-game.
Imo not your fault .. Basicly people should keep their offgame cars off the game area .. Simple as that .. I dont see what offgame cars have to do in the game area beside the civillians...
read the rules!!!!!!!!!!!!
an ingame car has to be clearly marked with teamcolors. When this ingame-car is "destroyed" it has to be additional marked with a orange flag.
All other vehicles are Off-game like any civilian car.
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Post by jdoe » 02 Jul 2009, 15:51

"Not admitting your mistakes makes a Panda cry"...

Sad. Why try to find justification for wrong doing, and instead, admit you did wrong and say you're sorry? Especially when this case is clear as the sky in B7.
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Post by Geboren » 02 Jul 2009, 16:08

At the bunker we shot a shell on the Milo's lada, she did not stop. But we don't care, it's a game and in the vehicule you may hear tons of "cliketi" with all the little stones on the road, trees parts, etc etc that you're vehicule encounter.

That was fun shooting at the lada, the fact he didn't stop -> don't care. Juste take the fun of Berget and sweap off the bad things.

That keeps everyone smiling.

BTW maybe cars should be destroyed by 40mm only that's right, or gamemasters more present with cars, etc.

Better find a cool solution for everyone than saying: "shit, vehicules drivers cheat".

Keep smile and wave :D
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Beckett
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Post by Beckett » 02 Jul 2009, 16:52

1 time we set on patrol and were droped of. vehicle was shot at on drivers side. He acknowledged the hit but drived on for 150 m. When I asked him why he did not stop, he answered that it was not safe there (before the curve, and he will not stop in the middle of the road). After 150 m there was a place where he pulled the car off the road. Our medic healed him and we were on our way.
Not exactly game rules, but also some common sense.

I understand you completely. PRobably was riddiculus and total waste of time laying and ambush if no cars were stopping after taking hits :P
Yet another thing to change or improve.
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Post by Morehk » 02 Jul 2009, 18:50

Geboren wrote:At the bunker we shot a shell on the Milo's lada, she did not stop. But we don't care, it's a game and in the vehicule you may hear tons of "cliketi" with all the little stones on the road, trees parts, etc etc that you're vehicule encounter.

That was fun shooting at the lada, the fact he didn't stop -> don't care. Juste take the fun of Berget and sweap off the bad things.

That keeps everyone smiling.

BTW maybe cars should be destroyed by 40mm only that's right, or gamemasters more present with cars, etc.

Better find a cool solution for everyone than saying: "shit, vehicules drivers cheat".

Keep smile and wave :D
You hit me with 2 bullets on the rear left side. We were amazed that u didn´t hit it more!
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Post by Hyrican » 02 Jul 2009, 18:55

You drove to fast :D couldnt aim such fast from 35-40 m, but anyway i blow your tire up and maybe also the fuel tank :D

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Post by Morehk » 02 Jul 2009, 19:01

Hyrican: Hollywoodstyle, boooya! :D
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Post by Panzergraf » 02 Jul 2009, 20:03

jdoe wrote:"Not admitting your mistakes makes a Panda cry"...

Sad. Why try to find justification for wrong doing, and instead, admit you did wrong and say you're sorry? Especially when this case is clear as the sky in B7.
We did say we were sorry and admitted the mistake on our side, or maybe you were too busy being angry to notice? The way you acted when you exited your car was very rude - not at all how you should interact with the people you play with - or against.

What I presented to you in the post above is an explanation of why it happened.

In short: if you can't handle a few BB's accidentally hitting your car, then don't use it as a taxi for dead players!
Bringing it into the game area even though you don't want it to get shot at is like taking your goggles off just because you're wearing a deathrag.

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Wastel
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Post by Wastel » 02 Jul 2009, 20:28

Panzergraf wrote:
jdoe wrote:"Not admitting your mistakes makes a Panda cry"...

Sad. Why try to find justification for wrong doing, and instead, admit you did wrong and say you're sorry? Especially when this case is clear as the sky in B7.
We did say we were sorry and admitted the mistake on our side, or maybe you were too busy being angry to notice? The way you acted when you exited your car was very rude - not at all how you should interact with the people you play with - or against.

What I presented to you in the post above is an explanation of why it happened.

In short: if you can't handle a few BB's accidentally hitting your car, then don't use it as a taxi for dead players!
Bringing it into the game area even though you don't want it to get shot at is like taking your goggles off just because you're wearing a deathrag.
I was in that car when the car was shot. We were coming from swimming so we were totally off-game, the car wasn't "used as a taxi for dead players".

What's the most important, read the rules with your mind! The car could had been any normal civilian car. The rules say that in-game cars are clearly marked, our car was a very normal red van without any flags or game-related markings. It's not an extenuating circumstance if you saw something red or orange in the car, it could had been some civilian's shirt or any other textile.

I know you're sorry but you just can't forgot the happening by saying "if you don't want to get your car shot, don't keep it in the game area". Would you act like that when some civilian has come to the game area in civilian clothes (ands without glasses), shoot him/her and then say "don't come to the game area if you don't wanna be shot"? Accidents are accidents and we all know that people make mistakes etc.etc. but we have to use our brains and read the rules. Everybody knew we were in the area in which move some civilians too. All players can't remember all the little part of the rules, but there are some very important parts that should be understood.
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Post by Panzergraf » 02 Jul 2009, 23:31

We were 100% certain it was not a local civilian vehicle. We had already seen the van together with the BE military trucks picking up players while we were transported past with the TGB-11.
If we had not recognized the van, it would never have been shot at.

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Post by jdoe » 02 Jul 2009, 23:55

Panzergraf wrote: We did say we were sorry and admitted the mistake on our side, or maybe you were too busy being angry to notice? The way you acted when you exited your car was very rude - not at all how you should interact with the people you play with - or against.
...
In short: if you can't handle a few BB's accidentally hitting your car, then don't use it as a taxi for dead players!
Bringing it into the game area even though you don't want it to get shot at is like taking your goggles off just because you're wearing a deathrag.
I wasn't in the car, I was in the camp. But, I probably would've been more rude than Otto, who you are talking about. The stunt you pulled was totally insane. So... you're saying, protecting your property vigorously is bad behaviour, but shooting at a car that has nothing to do with the game, is good?

In Short. This has been stated a couple of times now; our van was not a "dead-man taxi" (even though it is an old taxi van). People inside were players, yes, but their trip had nothing to do with the game. And since they thought people would recognize ingame vehicles and respect the rules, they did not think anything like this would happen.

This car has been shot before in AS-games, and probably will be in the future. And the good thing is, there was no serious damage. But you seem to miss the whole point; what you did, was wrong, and shouldn't have happened. It doesn't matter, if there was damage or not, or if there were players inside the car, offgame or not. This kind of thing should've never happened.

Another thing is, you said you're sorry. Ok, I accept that. But the mere fact, you are here, explaining your actions like it was nothing, makes me think, that you would probably do it again. And I really don't like that.

Next year, we will be coming to Berget with a boat, to avoid all damage ;)
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Post by Panzergraf » 03 Jul 2009, 00:17

jdoe wrote:So... you're saying, protecting your property vigorously is bad behaviour, but shooting at a car that has nothing to do with the game, is good?
No, that is not what I am saying.
Read my posts again bub, you'll se my point is: bringing a car into the game zone means that there is a chance it will get shot. As you said yourself - it will probably get shot at again.
If it was a dead-guy taxi or on a swimmingpool escort mission - same/same.

Do I think it is a good idea to have off-game vehicles within an in-game area - no.

Do I think it is a good idea to have civilian roads included in the in-game area - absolutely not.


Again, it's liek players wearing dead rags. People should not shoot at them on purpose, but accidents happen - maybe the deadrag isn't seen until it's too late. This is why you don't take off your glasses withing the game area, even while off-game, and this is also why cars you don't want people shooting at should be left in the off-game parking lot.


I never said it was the right thing to shoot at the car, and have apologized for the actions of my squad several times, I'm just saying:
Don't drive an off-game car into an in-game area if you don't want it to get shot at
Because it might happen, and this time it did.

I'm ashamed it was someone from my squad who shot, and that it did seem OK for all of us at that time, thinking we could rob the enemy of transport points, but it might as well have been anyone else.

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Post by jdoe » 03 Jul 2009, 07:51

Ok. I think we can understand each other now.
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Post by Pete » 03 Jul 2009, 11:06

Don't drive an off-game car into an in-game area if you don't want it to get shot at
Because it might happen, and this time it did.
Because play area includes civilian roads your point has no weight at all. Off-came car could have been driven by a person not in the game and if that would have happened this talk would have been more serious. The fact that the car in question had Finnish plates does not give anyone a right to shoot at it.

Berget rules should be clear to players and if reading and following them is a problem, those players should stay away from the game. This thing was discussed with one of the head gamemasters after the incident and his take on the matter was clear: Off-came car use is allowed during Berget for off-came transport (R&R, shopping etc) and any shooting of off-came cars will be dealt with as they could have serious effect on the event itself. Player numbers were given forward to Berget crew so they will deal with the matter.
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Post by Panzergraf » 03 Jul 2009, 13:54

jdoe wrote:Ok. I think we can understand each other now.
Thank you.

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