GENERAL FEEDBACK!

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 8.
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Redmenace_tv
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Post by Redmenace_tv » 21 Jun 2010, 02:32

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(TOM)
Berget 8 - NAF 5th Staff Officer
Berget 9 - 2IC NAF 1st Mech battalion
Berget 10 -2IC NAF 23rd Inf Battalion
Berget 11 -AWOL
Berget 12 - AWOL
Berget 13 - ?

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Cosmo
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Post by Cosmo » 21 Jun 2010, 04:25

I can say from the romanian side that we were just slightly prepared (poncho's and a few extra clothes), and what we did not have, ICA provided. :D

In a few hours we had a shelter over our heads besides the BE tent, a working fire and some ropes set up to dry our cloaths. Wasent perfect, but it did work.


Feedback:
CONS:
-Not enough firewood/stoves/BE-side weather preparation
-Greatly unbalanced teams (NAF literally was outmanned 3 to 1 in the end afaik)
-Bad bases and placements. (This year, milo's got the nato base and nato got the milo's base :) )
-Story was still NOT being spread around to the players so they knew what was going on. There's a LOT of fun about finding out what where and how your actions influenced something and how the world is changing.
-Try placing a big campfire spot in the middle of everybase, where people can come and heat up, mingle, and debrief. It makes the game a lot more authentic with a bit of camaraderie.
PRO:
-Great battalion commander, knew the limits and how to approach situations. "It's just a game"
-Good opportunities for large-scale battles and some for 'make your own story' events
-Great terrain and map. (less swamps though >.>)
B10 - NAF23 - Foxtrot Company - Fourth Platoon - Second Squad
B9 - NAF6 - Foxtrot Company - Fourth Platoon
B8 - NAF23 - Foxtrot Company - Third Platoon - Bravo Squad
B7 - NATO - Foxtrot Company - Fourth Platoon - Bravo Squad

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sierrasierranorway
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Post by sierrasierranorway » 21 Jun 2010, 10:28

I have just one thing to say. 3rd Poldavian battalion, the mountainers. Thank you. You are the greatest.
Sergantmajor Arne.
If anyone of you son of a bitches call me grandpa I kill you.

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Post by grasulas » 21 Jun 2010, 11:11

From my point as psyops the story was great, role play of some civilian’s incredible, area was good but I prefer less swamps and bushes.

It was great if we had a stove in the tent, and the lacking of wood for a decent fire was really annoying.
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Post by Zargor » 21 Jun 2010, 16:42

Hello,

My name is Scibor "Zargor" and I was a medic in the NAF 5th Btn 1st Coy 2nd Plt 4th Sqd, I also acted as the radioman for the company thus being always in the centre of events. Also, due to my good English my help was often requested to communicate or solve issues during the game.

This was my first Berget game but I have noticed several shortcomings or flaws during the game that I would like to point out. Most of these issues grouped together has led to Eagle Coy leaving the field prematurely and spoiling part of our fun from the event.


The camp had several issues, overall it's position was tactically quite bad and it's organization lacking.

- The camp site was on a slope. Besides obvious problems with positioning people inside tents this led to severe problems when faced with pouring rain

- The site was not levelled in any part and being very bumpy this gave us obvious problems inside the tents

- The tall grass and bushes were not cut down. I would remind that the tents offered by organisation had no flooring, this means that when we took possession of the tens we have found inside grass and bushes up to a meter high.

- The high grass that was not dealt with gave enough cover to mice moving around our tents undisturbed. We had several pieces of gear damaged, foot eaten and of course potential hygienic threat. I realize that mice presence is out under control of the organization but if care was taken to prepare the camp at least a little bit probably the problem would have been dramatically reduced.

- The condition of the tents ranged from average to poor. Most of the tents had several holes in them, the placing often was hap hazardous and after the rain started to come down in a matter of few hours we had water dripping on our heads, sleeping bags, gear and batteries with pools of it gathering on the downward side of the tents

- The toilet-washing area was outside the perimeter of the camp. We had reports of several people being fired at from the overlooking slope when washing/taking water. While I perfectly agree that this is supposed to be a Milsim the placing was careless nonetheless and no protection was provided to at least let people wash their face without risking an eye injury.

- Tactically speaking, the site was a nightmare. South and East were covered with woods practically up to where the camp started, from the north we had just a road and then a tall slope with a cliff that overlooked the entire base. Also, one of the respawn points was based just over the cliff, permitting a quick recovery o any attacking force. All of the arthworks and fixed emplacements had to be build ex novo, in this I would ike to thank the Russian guys who did an excellent work at the base entrance.

- The HQ was given no structure whatsoever. All that was available was a table. No tent, no rain cover, nothing at all. This led also to a unsympathetic situation when the HQ staff, out of it's initiative have requisitioned our cooking area without asking permission neither before nor after. Just to remind the HQ, that area was build with our materials and our work but certainly it would have not been a problem to lodge
anyone in it. Usually though, good manners dictate to at least ask. Maybe we could have helped building some cover for the HQ so the HQ staff wouldn't leave the radio charging stations and power generator under pouring rain.
Fortunately the company radio was not in need of replacement batteries anymore as we left soon after.

In spite of this the "Restoration Point" had a big tent and electricity far before we could charge our batteries or other equipment. The was a sharp contrast that left a sour note.

Regarding the radios, it was a nice initiative but unfortunately as far as I can tell, almost completely useless. The radio communication was lost very quickly and never established during engagements. The only time it worked flawlessly was during a patrol duty on a ridge overlooking the base, otherwise most of the time we had no HQ contact. Again, I would like to thank Vladimir for providing means to coordinate the attack on the Prison Camp.

Now, regarding the early leave of 1st Eagle Coy:

- The night before I clearly heard Ober-Lix telling that the Poldavian side has called a Game Off
- The morning after, waking up with humid gear and clothes due to tents letting in water we were told that
the game has been called of indefinitely due to bad weather and dangerous conditions of the camp
- We were also told that "special" mission would be arranged, gathering those who still wanted to fight from
both sides and making them meet in a "death match" sort of encounter.
- Unfortunately only a small part of us had actual desert waterproof gear, being it usually harder to retrieve, having all already normal waterproof gear and not willing to spend additional money for stuff that would be used just once. We have asked for a permission to use our existing waterproof gear over desert camo and of course with the armbands but it was denied.

Summing up, we had wet tents with no possibility to dry up anything, we were told the game was called off due to weather/camp conditions and that we would have "death match" like mission to do for now.
After a vivid discussion we finally decided that there was no sense in staying under water, cold and wet and wait for a hypothetic solution to the problems to arise.

What saddened us the most was that after dismounting everything and stopping at the Berget Events HQ we have found out that most of the information we have received was false. This has left us a very bitter note regarding both Berget Events and our "HQ".

Just a small note regarding the camo - the restriction was a total crap, leaving one side heavily penalized. I would like to remind you that 99% of airsofters have some woodland style bdus but most of them do not have desert bdus. The same thing goes for ponchos/bashas or goretex. This means that besides being penalized on the field, NAF players often had to undergo additional expenses to cope with the this requirements. Two BDUs (nobody mentally sane comes without a replacement) that you will probably use just once do have a cosr difficult to account for .Please drop this idea in the future or you will have heavily underpopulated factions. We have armbands, you can just restrict camos to NATO/Warsaw pact or digital/non digital or split camo.

This said I must thank all the guys from the 5th for the dedication and will to fight demonstrated, in spite of being penalized both in base and camo compartment. The attack at our base camp have showed what the NAF could do without needing a fence, bunkers and clean fields of fire. Good work lads!
I had a fantastic experience and certainly would like to repeat it.
Especially the whole trip, the before and after the game were the parts I enjoyed really a lot, made new friends and discovered new qualities in old ones. Thank you all, hope to see you again next year, under an actual Infantry officer, possibly in adequate camo, with our own tents, radio transmitters and wire cutters for each squad :P

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Post by Redmenace_tv » 21 Jun 2010, 17:26

UNITY AND PURPOSE

I'm not big on pointing out negatives, i like to propose solutions. I have been involved in music festivals here in the uk and i suppose big events have some similarities. One thing that I see at these events is the need for setting up time, this is important for group bonding. What i propose is that the first evening is not for fighting, it is part of a setting up time. Also the transports provided by berget are great and fantastic but they should be attached to respective units, so the players get a sense of belonging ans attachment to their vehicles. also i gives the players a visual sign of the transport capacity that is availiable to each unit. These transports are obviosly driven by berget staff and maybe are only availiable through some of the game hours (say 9am-10pm) but this way players and staff will get to feel part of somthing bigger.

Here is how i would like to see the start of the next berget event.

Check in and setting up.

After the ticket id check and chronoing each side should have its Jump Off area (Polly's, NAF, Civi). This is an area has a changing tent and a 'parade ground' area, it could also have a food stall or whatever. In this space players can get changed in to their game clothes and mingle with players on their team, reunited with old comrades from the year before and compare new boomsticks ect. Thier bag and other luggage can then be loaded on to the units transports ready to be hauled to the respective bases. game on at ten'o'clock should be replace with 'fall in' time. The commanders of the battalions should be present, they can find their staff officers and company commanders, who will in turn find their platoon leaders, who will find their squad leaders , who will find their men and have them line up like a regular military unit. Battalion commanders and their staff facing their men, who are split in to units with their company comanders to the front. This is the time for pep talks, breifings ect. it also gives the players a sense of unity with their team and lets them see who they are fighting alongside. When the Muster is complete the whole force marches out to the bases, while in their units, with the units transports bringing the players luggage. This would give the start of the game a real feel of unity within each camp, and also give the players a sence of purpose and comradeship.

The Camps.

To much bitching this year about how the camps are set up/ lack of this or that. When I am at music festivals making camp is an important part of the settleing in process and helps people to bond. plus if your camp is unprepared then it is not anyones fault but your own. What i propose is Berget events should choose the situation of the bases and set up the toilets and the water ect. but have the players march to their base and be issued with a tent for each squad or platoon, shovels for drainage and defence building, sand bags ect ect. Then the players make their own camp, as would be the case in the military (you have 1400 guys you may as well get them working to make the game more fun) Giving the players this job on the first night gives them a sense of purpose and gives them the chance to connect with their commanders, it also gives the chance for the players to have a little responsibility for themselves and feel that they are making a home for the week. Another benefits is that it cuts down on the work load of the berget staff giving them a chance to put their efforts towards other things and allows the right amount of tents to be put up exactly. After the tents are up they players have the opportunity to build their HQ area, base defences and set up check points ect. A final Muster and breifing at maybe 1am giving the units their jobs for the next day and then downtime/bed time.

Game on!

Game on starts at the moring of what this time was the second day, commanders can decide if this is the moment for an all out dawn attack on the enemy hq or recon in force or multiple amushes for the enemy whatever. the fact is at this point the players already feel a part of their unit and know what they are expecting.

Other things.
Game mechanics - I like the game mechanic (SP's TP's) that Berget have introduced and i think these can be expanded. Rather than have the focus on set point split the game area into zones, zones are controlled by strategic points, which also give the side holding them points to spend on arty, rockets what ever else berget can think of. (NOT transport, this should be attached to units so players can recognise the vehicles on their own side.)These points can also be added up to find out who has won the game. In each Zone there would also be a tactical point which is for respawns only, would be good if there was more than this year to keep the game flowing a bit more as the heavy woodland can break up play alot. I split up the map into 9 'zones' just to play with this idea and it seemed to work on the paper.

Player marshalls - We have these in the UK to help with fair play, a few trusted players on each team as 'player marshalls' these guys can help with airstrike and arty casualties as the appearance of high vis marshall on quads this year meant the arty was usually ineffective, armed with a berget phone player marshalls give the option of a more even playing field. Another thing i noticed about this years game is the need for berget staff or a games master (or a trustee/representative of berget) to be present embedded with each unit, he lives where they live and helps the commander with airstrikes, atry, any emergencies or enquiries ect.

Overall Commanders - I think that a player appointed as an overall commander for each faction can only be a good thing, I only saw whiteace and the rangers on the last day, this may have been sooner if we had more coordination between battalions.

Peace out and give feedback.
Redmenace (The Crazy Brit)
(TOM)
Berget 8 - NAF 5th Staff Officer
Berget 9 - 2IC NAF 1st Mech battalion
Berget 10 -2IC NAF 23rd Inf Battalion
Berget 11 -AWOL
Berget 12 - AWOL
Berget 13 - ?

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Bilich
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Post by Bilich » 21 Jun 2010, 17:37

sierrasierranorway wrote:I have just one thing to say. 3rd Poldavian battalion, the mountainers. Thank you. You are the greatest.
Sergantmajor Arne.
It was my first Berget but I was surprised about great moral in 3.rd. We did not have any complains about long walking and only 15 men left when rain started.

It was nice to see you going around with that Luger and making us feel good.

See you next year mister Sargent mayor :)

Can I call you grandpa now ? Do I need be in other battalion next year if I call you grandpa ? :P
B8 - Poldavian 3.rd mountainers , 4th platoon
B9 - Mister of Poldavia and sexual object

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Post by Tasgeir » 21 Jun 2010, 19:02

Bilich wrote: only 15 men left when rain started.
Most of the ppl that left 3.rd pol was not becouse of the rain but othere reasons.

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Post by Whosu » 21 Jun 2010, 20:05

Had a great time dispite the rain. My squad was lucky enough to be placed in a finnish-style tent with a stove(or wateva it is in english) so we didn't get that wet or cold.

Thanks for the whole of NAF, you were a great enemy and gave us Finns some challenge (finally?). This year I actually had to respawn (twice) :D
Mostly saw fair play and great spirit, thanks for everyone for that.

I would also like to thank our Coy commander, Pete, for great leadership and clear instructions, also keeping us informed about the situation all the time.

For the Italians in 1st Inf. Bat.: the firewood is ment to be burnt, not to build a bloody pavement between your tents. On friday we had to find some wood from the forest to keep our tent and gear dry. :wink:

For BE: I believe and hope you learnt from this year and will prepare better for weather like this next time. If you can't provide proper tents for everyone, atleast build shelters with some sort of way for people to dry their clothes. Also I'd like to point out that more firewood is needed if the weather gets like it did so that people can atleast burn bonfires to keep them warm.

Still, a great event and I'll be taking part next year if possible(school, work etc.).
Berget 6, SRP Snake 3
Berget 8, Poldavian 1st Inf, 1st Coy, Hammer 4 Squad leader

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Post by Abbe » 21 Jun 2010, 21:15

I would like to say thanks to all in 3rd for a great game, and i would like to say thanks naf 5th for thier hospitality for me when i was a prisoner (twice) :D I was the swedish guy in flora uniform.

heat,cold,rain and distance wont stop us, we are Mountaineers !
Berget 7: Yuri orlovs merceneries
Berget 8: Poldavian 3rd mountaineers
Berget 9: Poldavian 1st Mechanized Battalion
Berget 10: Poldavian 15th sapper & pioneers
Berget 12: Yuris heavy mechnized unit

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Post by Fenan » 21 Jun 2010, 21:58

Klab wrote:Hahaha.. we had Poldavians driving in our base even wearing armrags before the game.. "we're lost".. hahahaha there was a big sign "poldavian cars only" to the right at a crossroad 700m after the barrier in the safe zone.. of course guys, we trust you you're lost :evil:
yes, I drove passed your camp showing armband just because I had to cover my face so I didn't see your camp.

The sign could be improved, it said:
"poldavian cars only"

this either means:
1. No other cars than the poldavians' may use this road - but poldavians' may still go straight ahead (because an equal sign with NAF cars only will appear later) ... or

2. Poldiavian car may only use this road.
Stig wrote:
Fenan wrote: I understand why the check-in guy should not sit on intel that could compromise the base locations and such in-game stuff, but he should be able to know what players actually are supposed to do after check in -and in case the player does not know where the base is - tell them who can!!
A crewmember at the entrance showed me the 3rd base on the map after I had shown evidence to be Poldavian.
yes, this crew member showed herself when I was back to get my car to drive stuff from 1st batallion to mountaineers camp. But that crew member was not there before when I started to walk... nor were the check in-dudes to any help in this matter.
B7 - Milos Tigers, Siberia Coy
B8 - Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers, 4th platoon, alpha squad
B9 - Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers, 6th platoon, 3rd/4th squad
B13 - Ikaros Infantery, 4th company, 4th "platoon"
B14 - Nordic Alliance Force

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Post by diamid » 21 Jun 2010, 22:48

I had a lot of fun this year, and hope next year will be even better.
First I want to thank MrMedic and Wasp, that help making this years Berget so fun, and the motivational speech when my whole squad satt socking wet and moral was low.

I found this years area to be alot more fun than last year. More roads and TP and SP was a lot fun. But I hope that we can have a smal city next year and not a tent-made refugee camp. I missed having a small town to visit and to fight over in the midle of the map.

When it comes to the bad weather, we have a saying in Norway. "Det finnes ikke dårligt vær, bare dårlige klær" meaning "There is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes". When your going on trip like this, It's important to take with you some extra clothes. Myself forgot to pack enough and payed the price. Thank god, there was a warm shower to find on the nearby campingplace.

But, I find it kind of sad that Berget did not have enough stoves to give to everyone and that they did not have any possiblity (of my knowledge) to dry clothes. Something they could do its to buy a couple of large party-tents, and heat elements, that they can rigg up in cases like these. Where players can dry their gear and cloths in the safe-zone.

I did not see a lot of cheating this year. But some players did not take hits, even when hit at quite short range. I find this sad, since it makes a lot of players very frustrated. I don't get mad on people because of this, since there is a lot of adrenalin going in large fights. But I hope that if anyone is not sure that they are hit or not, that they can take the hit.

An example where I can put myself, was when I was hit on the cross-roads next to the Merc-base. I was quite sure it was a ricochet and did not think much more about it. The poldavian soldier screamed that he saw me get hit. Since I was not sure, and no one around me could say if was a hit or not, I took the hit and put on my death-rag. Luckly, there was a NAF medic close by.
Last edited by diamid on 22 Jun 2010, 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
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B7: SF Sqd Leader - Yuri Orlovs Mercs
B8: CoyLeader - Sixth Mercs
B11: Batalion XO - Raven Guerillia
B13: Commander - IKAROS Minerva Infantry

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Post by Joppe(NO) » 21 Jun 2010, 23:25

There should really be a change in the commands calling for "game off" and "game on". When shouted across a large area, it's impossible to distinguish "off" from "on", and so may easily lead to confusion. I experienced one such incident on wednesday night, when the game was called off and people continued shooting, leading to people repeating the game off call, which in turn was interpreted by yet other people as a game on call. Luckily, no harm was done as far as I know, but this could easily have turned out otherwise.

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Post by J82 » 22 Jun 2010, 01:27

Hi all this was my first Berget and I must say I was expecting a lot from this event. :D

Well after we arrived to our Pol camp and after noticing how the tents were setup we started fixing them so that they wouldnt crash on us. At that point we noticed how rocky/clay like the ground was: insanely hard to hookup the tent on the ground and lay out sleeping areas inside the tens. Well nothing to complain here, but after that when we noticed that we didnt have stove's on some of our tens... well by god I had a bad feeling about that. :twisted:

Well after few hours of sleep we gathered up and went to safezone to get listed, get the lunch tickets, t-shirts, wrist bands ect. Had to say this worked like a charm, line was moving all the time and it was really supprice how nicely this was arranged.

About base fortifications: atleast we 1st Poldavian Battalion 1st Coy (Finns) spend "some time" in the surroundings of our base buidling bunkers, digging foxholes, we had just few shovels so it took some time and effort, but if you dont prepare you dont have defences.... =) Nothing comes free. And "open area+foxholes+clear line of fire > bushes + bushes+foxeholes+efficient firing range 5-10m...." :D

And like it has been said: stoves... stoves STOVES!!!. Weather report ==> heavy rain... ==> get some stoves then and not on the next day after 12h of raining... We heard that in the friday morning "more stoves are on the way" but i gues none of them didnt get to Pol camp... Its crusial and everybody should know that A) weather cannot be controlled and B) you cant keep tent+gear dry if you dont have stove when its raining... So once more: STOVES :twisted:

Have to give compliments about the food this year (atleast the meals that i had time to check out :P were really tasty and waaarrrmmm. :D

The about the "vehicle" and "mechanized" part :twisted:
I never rode a single ride on berget vehicle during the event :twisted: I mean i understand that the capasity and usage of the vehicles are limited but but... have to say i feel that other nationalities were "prefered" to be shipped out in vehicles than Poldavian's for some reasons not saying here. But when you come to and event like this: be prepared to walk - there is no buss ride from one fight to another... (like it seem some had...) :twisted: You take the pros and cons that comes whit the larger game area than normal weekend fights... So better "run in" the new boots for the year 2011 :D

And about the "not taking hits" - part. Well i bumped some nice NAF trooper's that didnt know that 3 BB to chest/shoulder area or 4 BB to chest shoulder HEAD area from 120 m/s GBB from 12-15 meters means that "Your eliminated - get your deadrag out and thats it". And by the way peeps the shots were fired from the front while the guys were running towards our defence line... :D

And next thing: NAF medics
A) you cant "run" whit a wounded soldier :D
B) yes its a hit if somebody hits you from 40m while your crawling towards the wounded man :D
C) 2min rule... peeps... i saw several times in firefight medic jumping from tree to tree and peeps starting firing their weapons 0.5sec after medic has touched them... I got healed 2 times in the game: 1st time it was a Russian medic who pulled me out of the line of fire (5m away behind a fallen tree) bandaged my arm and showed me whit his fingers: 2min and said the same to me - he hold my wrist for 2min and then released, after that he went for the next wounded man. Same thing happened whit Finnish medic, but whitout the dragging part =) :D

Every Berget crew member was extremely polite and helped if I had anything to ask or do. Cheers to you all.

So im eagerly waiting for 2011 to see the STOVES, and maybe few showel's (10 per base) to be used building fortifications. Cya there! :D

Im sorry for the typo's but this reply was wrote straight from the heart whitout thinking too much. :D

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Post by Whosu » 22 Jun 2010, 01:44

For people not taking their hits part: has been said many times before, and was mentioned on our ferry trip at our briefing too: "Shoot until orange". Worked really well for me.

Only once did I have to mention(or yell actually) to a NAF medic "I guess your hit!", immediately after that he rose his deadrag. When the adrenalin is pumping hard in the middle of a battle it's sometimes hard to notice if your fired at far away.
Berget 6, SRP Snake 3
Berget 8, Poldavian 1st Inf, 1st Coy, Hammer 4 Squad leader

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