A FAIR GAME OR NOT ???

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Ober-Lix
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A FAIR GAME OR NOT ???

Post by Ober-Lix » 28 Jul 2010, 13:23

I think it is time to point out a few things that really put a dumper on B8:

Before the game started a few poldavians spyed out by car the locations of NAF forces.

- NAF forces were greately outnumberd from the start.
- Base locations compared NAF to poldavians. The poldavians had a paradise
compared to NAF.
- 5th NAF HQ building totally unuseable. Health risk !
- Desert cammo in woodland ???
- 5th NAF base in the open easy to spy on from Eagle Cliff.
- Poldavians were given secret info by BE. Don´t know who it was but
had it confirmed.
- Transport requests took more then half hours to arrive.
- Requested rocket or artillery strikes rarely hit the given location, except
at the end of the game.
- Choosing a ground for a base that turned into a mud ground close to a
swamp after strong rain.

I am sure there are some more things one could mention but this should not be taken for soure grapes but noted for future games in this area.
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B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
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Post by running+sizzor » 28 Jul 2010, 20:38

Who said it was going to be fair?

In real life things aren't equal, we are simulating that, so I wouldn't expect things to be equal. You play that hand that is dealt to you and if you loose or win, in the end that's not important. It's nice to have a fighting chance though.

That being said, it seems that more experience with the terrain is needed. What places go bad if it rains for example.

The airstrikes... I think ther were 2 occasions when people screamed at me there was an airstrike and I should take cover, which I did. But except for my team mates telling me, I didn't know if the fireworks were ment for us, some other location etc. and I never saw a marshall indicating people were hit or anything like that. (Maybe I was to busy taking cover?)

Being shot to (bloody) pieces at 5 meter range by multiple support gunners that almost stept on me I can say that you can hide with 3 color desert in the middle of a forrest. (No guilly suit, no multicam, just face paint and 3 color desert.) They never saw me, they just reacted to me shooting someone further away and sprayed all over the bushes hoping to hit something.
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Post by Losolos » 28 Jul 2010, 21:22

- NAF forces were greately outnumberd from the start.
General problem with that amount of people
- Base locations compared NAF to poldavians. The poldavians had a paradise
compared to NAF.
I would say that’s 50:50 I see much mud in the tents of 1 st Infantry and our tent was complete filled with water .. prepare for everything …. next time !
- 5th NAF HQ building totally unuseable. Health risk !
We had a HQ tent no building …..
- Desert cammo in woodland ???
Follow the rules and you get good camo ! only Jacket and Pants must be desert !
Use green vest, Knee and ellbow protectors and a green hat ! you get good camo ….
And NAF was allowed to use olive raingear as far as I know.
- 5th NAF base in the open easy to spy on from Eagle Cliff.
Good point ..i never was on Eagle Cliff but as near to your base you have good advantage to hold that point ?
- Poldavians were given secret info by BE. Don´t know who it was but
had it confirmed.
I must be damned secret I didn`t hear something
- Transport requests took more then half hours to arrive.
Good time ! need better planning and better prepared BE
- Requested rocket or artillery strikes rarely hit the given location, except
at the end of the game.
Don`t know that I was several times near that fireworks .. always keep my head down.
- Choosing a ground for a base that turned into a mud ground close to a
swamp after strong rain.
You are totally right ! but first time on that area and last minute change … Point to BE select area earlier ! and keep an eye on the rain factor !
B5-B17 on duty
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Post by Ober-Lix » 29 Jul 2010, 13:53

Hey, remember this is a game, not the real war ! Folks have payed a lot of money for it to have fun, not to mention the cost of travel. They have the right to expect a fair game.
I wouldn´t mind hearing what our italian friends had to say to it.
As the commander of 5th NAF, I wasn´t right pleased about loosing two of my companies due to the conditions.
:x :shock: :roll:
B6 2nd Bat. CO NATO
B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)

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Post by Trasher-HU » 29 Jul 2010, 15:51

These events are never "fair", it's impossible with the number of players (at very different experience levels) involved...
B6 - NATO, Fox2, mech QRF
B7 - Orlov mercs, Bravo2, medic
B8 - Poldav 3rd Mtn, mech QRF driver
B9 - Poldav 3rd Mtn. recon, Romeo-2 SL
B10 - Poldav 21st Mech Sappers, SL

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Post by running+sizzor » 29 Jul 2010, 21:08

Maybe you miss understood what I mean by fair game.

It's airsoft, one team will always have "the advantage" but it's often also just a point of view. The organizor does it's best to make things equal, but there are so many possibilities within the game to do it you're way and people finding shortcuts within the rules of the game it's hard to predict.

If you want things to be truly fair, you need very strict rules, a symetrical playing area where all objects are artificial to get perfect mirroring of the arena. Replica's provided by the organizer, bright yellow and orange coverals, paint in the ammo to register hits etc. It might still be fun, but I'd call it paintball instead of airsoft.

The freestyle and unlimited range of options is what makes airsoft so great.

If you didn't like the base location.... you could have moved it for example. (Yes that would have had concequences, but so did staying put.) The ranger base for example could have used the reinforcements and we would happily have made room to house a few fellow NAF soldiers.
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Post by Ober-Lix » 31 Jul 2010, 11:01

running+sizzor wrote:
If you didn't like the base location.... you could have moved it for example. (Yes that would have had concequences, but so did staying put.) The ranger base for example could have used the reinforcements and we would happily have made room to house a few fellow NAF soldiers.
Very good ! Can you tell me how you move a base with tents and everything during an ongoing game.
:?:
Its not an easy task in real war with real soldiers and a logistic unit but with airsofters and in a three day game ??? :roll:

I wasn´t borne yesterday and decided to unite with the left overs of my unit with the 23rd NAF. 8)
B6 2nd Bat. CO NATO
B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)

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Post by Tiger_1 » 31 Jul 2010, 12:41

Like some cheese with that?
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Post by Ober-Lix » 31 Jul 2010, 18:03

Tiger_1 wrote:Like some cheese with that?
Yea, why not ? Have you got some but make it a top quality one. :D
B6 2nd Bat. CO NATO
B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)

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Post by running+sizzor » 31 Jul 2010, 20:46

Ober-Lix wrote: Very good ! Can you tell me how you move a base with tents and everything during an ongoing game.
You guys had tents? I haven't been inside a tent or building during the entire game.

Seriously, if conditions where so poor, you could have seen that days before the game started and if the location was really that poor, yeah even during the game you could have moved if you really wanted too.

Now if things just started to suck when the rain came in.... you know very well that this site was new to the Berget crew too. They did warn us that rain was comming in.
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Post by hezi » 31 Jul 2010, 21:37

running+sizzor wrote: Now if things just started to suck when the rain came in.... you know very well that this site was new to the Berget crew too. They did warn us that rain was comming in.
the whole base area was placed in a big slope,
in the rain and after it the base area become to be a very nice mud swamp, we had no place to transfer the tents even if we wanted to.

if Berget crew know that it might rain, then they shouldn't placed our base in this slope.
Last edited by hezi on 31 Jul 2010, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tiger_1 » 31 Jul 2010, 22:23

Our camp was on a slope to. When told rain was going to be hard, people rigged tarps, dug ditsches to divert the water, and we got ready to play on.
It rains, its a thing of nature, you either deal with it, or you get wet ;)
So the rain was not an issue for the fair play of the game!
All sides had dropouts, and to say poldavia outnummberd you by massive nr i would say is wrong. All fights my unit was in was hard and hung in the balance several times.
What secret info from berget crew? I never heard it, and i was a bn commander. So i would like you to pm me with what intel that was obelix, and who you belive recived this.

I will bring some jarslberg next year :)
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Post by Ober-Lix » 01 Aug 2010, 00:58

Tiger_1 wrote:Our camp was on a slope to. When told rain was going to be hard, people rigged tarps, dug ditsches to divert the water, and we got ready to play on.
It rains, its a thing of nature, you either deal with it, or you get wet ;)
So the rain was not an issue for the fair play of the game!
All sides had dropouts, and to say poldavia outnummberd you by massive nr i would say is wrong. All fights my unit was in was hard and hung in the balance several times.
What secret info from berget crew? I never heard it, and i was a bn commander. So i would like you to pm me with what intel that was obelix, and who you belive recived this.

I will bring some jarslberg next year :)
We are talking in circles. Naturally my men were digging ditches like mad around their tents and various other positions but that was all a waisted time and effort because the ground turned straight away in the rain into a moving mud.
And wether you like to hear it or not, poldavians outnumbered NAF by at least 60 to 80 players.
The intel given to members of the poldavians did not, lucky enough, had too much effect on us. Its just that we could not successfully complete the mission. I am not in the habbit of pointing the finger, so lets just take it at that.

I am looking foreward to the chees though ! :D
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B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)

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Post by Ober-Lix » 01 Aug 2010, 01:01

running+sizzor

But you were not out in the open ! :P
B6 2nd Bat. CO NATO
B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)

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Post by freno » 01 Aug 2010, 11:32

The only base that wasn´t located on a sloat was psyops. Eaven the Pold. 1:st INF had their base in a sloat, and one of the worst when it rains that i ever seen. All water poured down to the tents at the bottom of their "valley".

And you all know the story about the russian team living down there:
-What about the rain in your tent?
-That´s the way we like it, SIR!!!

Having tents, toilets, waters etc is ONE of the things we´re paying for. If some of the guys/girls choose to live out in the open or under tarps or NEVER sleep, THAT is choosen by them. The things we payed for, and BE promised to us SHOULD work.

The logistics of this cind of game might be hard to handle, and might be up for discussion. If there have been stoves in more of the tents from beginning, and more woods (delivered from BE or from players) the rain shouldn´t be so big problem.

We need to realise that BE can´t be responsible for the weather, but they might plan the locations better. They have now had late-time-changes of the playingarea twice!!! Bad luck i say! Next year might have better chance for better planning.

Not me neither have recieved any "secret-intel" from BE. The INTEL i got, i´ve recieved from my teammates or nice NAF-players!!! ;-)

The number of players was informed to us before gamestart, so everybody knew about it. It is hard to deal with this! If BE announce 600 players on each side and all tickets get sold emediately on one side, They can´t take them back!?
That the interrest of NAF-side was low is more interresting! It could be up to discussion about the STORY.

It´s true it´s only a game and we should never forget that! When we play a game like this, it WILL many times be diffrent numbers of players on each side. That might not be a problem when we´re not compeeting, right?
I need to say that i´ve been lucky on 4 BE, and never experianced being outnr. EXCEPT for B6 when i played as a Merc under Gen. Conrad, but not until we left the base we got attacked by ALL NATO?

I mean that a co can make a good game eaven with "outnr-players"? At home, i OFTEN have to deal with that and most of the times players think it is good games anyway!

I´ll bring some more VÄSTERBOTTENS-CHEESE next year!! :P
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