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Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 22:35
by Robin-Hood
STUNTMAN wrote:And for the others who don't have velcro like your example? There are lots of old bdu without velcro in the sleeves.
No reason why both couldn't be allowed...

Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 22:43
Right, but a small square it's more concealed that a regular armband, so if we want to be equal... there is only one way. Let BE decide what they want as an organization.

Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 22:51
by EagleDriver
You could just have your armband with only the same sized square on it in the team color. This really is not an issue.

Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 23:06
Yeah i know that, we're just discussing... it's why it's so good to use the foruns and exchange info between other people.

Clarify me this point.

If the square armband it's oin the velcro sleeve, how can i see it if i'm in the back of the player? How can i see if that player it's "mine" or "Enemy"?

Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 23:33
by EagleDriver
I feel that the uniform is really how we should be distinguishing the teams apart. In MILSIM games here in the US (I know Berget is not strictly MILSIM) we even have trouble telling uniform colors apart at night. This leads to some incidents of fratricide or "friendly fire." We feel that this adds to the realism and confusion that is found in actual combat incidents.

For one example at Operation Pine Plains we plat at the US Army's MOUT training facility at Fort Drum. Since it is an urban setting, the ACU uniform works well there (and people think it isn't good at all :D ) But in the evening and at night, especially with night vision, the ACU uniform (which up until this year was on the Tan side) is confused with the good old US Woodland BDU. This led to some friendly fire incidents, but the real 10th Mountain Division members said that it made the game better--that you had to identify your target and make a shoot-no-shoot decision instead of just shooting something that looked like the opposite team.

Posted: 12 Jun 2011, 23:45
by Buffel
Got to agree with Eagledriver here. Or to put it otherwise, why go to all the trouble of enforcing uniform differences if you're gonna rely on the armbands anyway...

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 02:50
by DutchWolf
+1 for Eagledriver, I say get rid of the armbands altogether. I mean really, what does it add? If OD vs TAN isn't enough I.D. you need to get your eyes checked :?

If you really need more, make a team patch mandatory. Just give the teams a contrasting shapes (shields vs circles or w/e) and they can just be subdued patches...

What Ealge said about the 'shoot-no-shoot' decisions is a fair point, I find that there are more blue-on-blue incidents at armbands skirms. Guess people stop and think a little more when you have to go only by what the target is wearing.

EDIT: And buffel has a great point too. Why even bother with the uniforms and then put a huge armband on it...

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 03:26
by Robin-Hood
+1 to everything EagleDriver has said. I haven't been to BE yet but from other experience I agree, plus it just seems logical.

Also sorry to hear about the major date screw up for OPP5 man, hope you're able to make another one, must suck.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 08:52
by L4gi
AFAIK its not only to distinguish which team youre on, but also to have a place to put your player ID on. Kinda hard to try and enforce rules when the guy that just broke them can just walk away without anyone knowing who he is.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 08:53
by A_Muller
Then a patch with the correct Soldier-ID would be more suitable TBH.
Uniform restrictions for teams is much better than using armbands in my expereince, and not allowing 12thousand different camos per team either.
Simple Woodland BDU vs DCU is more than enough.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 12:34
For example... we make several games here in Portugal, where the split of the teams are made by Camo pattern (Deserts vs Woodlands).

The problem it's MULTICAM who svereal times is miscunfused with woodland!

We made that type of games, but allways with armbands!

Let us see in the future what can we do to change the rules.

About Berget Events.... i'm playing this games for 5 years and the armband i'ts not an issue.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 15:48
by DutchWolf
Just 'cause it's not an issue doesn't mean it can't be improved.

Multicam could be an issue. Although the patches for the player ID would partly solve that. But then again, since we're doing uniform restrictions anyway, why not just say 'no multicam'.

Or we can just agree that wearing multicam puts you at risk of being misidentified. Wear at own risk....

This might offend a couple of die hard multicam fans but on the whole I recon a little more realism / getting rid of those bloody armbands is well worth sacrificing a single camo pattern.

EDIT: Or, alternatively, use armbands/squares with somewhat more subtly colours? (OD, TAN, BLACk rather than redvsblue).

I mean it doesn't have to be 100% milsim for me, but RedvsBlue is just a little to much Halo for me.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 16:01
by Spof
Hey guys. Good feedback and ideas. This suggestion have been under concideration for several years, last year was the first event where we enforced the camoflage rules as a test.

Berget-games are not milsim as some of you pointed out, we have only elements of "milsim" in some units. However due to the large amount of berget & biggame "First-timers" there is a risk of frustration from the veteran and more experienced players when their units encounter blue-on-blue situations from players that only want to shoot and dont think.

As a Game-master veteran i must say that it would be a big step to remove the armbands without extensive testing, but you never know what the Berget future holds :D

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 17:22
by DutchWolf
Maybe subtle colour amrbands is a better one then?

I totally get it when people get a bit frustrated when blue-on-blue occurs, but you'd think that with Berget being THE big-game event in Europe most people don't just come for shoot-don't-think

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 18:11
by jurgen975
Spof wrote:Hey guys. Good feedback and ideas. This suggestion have been under concideration for several years, last year was the first event where we enforced the camoflage rules as a test.

Berget-games are not milsim as some of you pointed out, we have only elements of "milsim" in some units. However due to the large amount of
Its not the first time this point has been discussed,to let game evolve a strict camouflage rule should be applied.
You could do a try out next year
Let the SF on the NAF site use multicam and other NAF units acu
For the poldavian site something comparable could work.
The risk of blue on blue fire is always there especially when there is poor communication between units,or the communication breaks down when a bigger operation is taking place