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Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 18:18
by Saveli_M
When playing without armbands, sides should just to have different camos and not a collection of all WL / Desert camos.

We have played quite large games without armbands, when sides had something like "OD vs. DPM" or "WL vs. Flektarn", and it really works. Even with armbands, you should check your targets, so friendly fire is an issue every time when bunch of trigger-happy people are wandering in forrests. I have NOT notested big difference in that (w/ or w/out armbands).

Trouble will dispatch if sides are having lot's of different camos, so if playing without armbands, rules about camo's should be a lot more strict that they are now, and patterns allowed to another side should be very similiar.

I like it when factions are even trying to have a unite look in uniforms, but if we're going to have a game with 50 different camoflage patterns, I cannot see any other way to know your friend or foe, but wear a armband. So many times you can only spot your enemy's head or pattern and cannot see his armband, so it's difficult to identify anyway. In open ground it's the same thing: you can see armband more easily, but you can recognice camo pattern also more accurate.

Either way, I have no problem playing with or without armbands, gamemasters just have to make sure that we are not complaining about rules that allow everybody to hide their side. Afterall, we, players don't want to play 1000 person deathmatch, right?

If BE removes armbands, they should also remove a whole bunch of camo patterns, and if you don't like patterns issued for your side, what would you do then? Stay home, get a new uniform or ignore those rules?
How would it effect in next berget? There are lot's of questions to be answered, and you cannot like them all, so how will you deal with it when signing up your ticket for B10?

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 18:32
by DutchWolf
jurgen975 wrote:
Spof wrote:Hey guys. Good feedback and ideas. This suggestion have been under concideration for several years, last year was the first event where we enforced the camoflage rules as a test.

Berget-games are not milsim as some of you pointed out, we have only elements of "milsim" in some units. However due to the large amount of
Its not the first time this point has been discussed,to let game evolve a strict camouflage rule should be applied.
You could do a try out next year
Let the SF on the NAF site use multicam and other NAF units acu
For the poldavian site something comparable could work.
The risk of blue on blue fire is always there especially when there is poor communication between units,or the communication breaks down when a bigger operation is taking place
+1 for this, great idea and good point.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 19:49
by Buffel
I'm curious how many people would drop out simply because of needing a new uniform. Compared to the overall costs of attending Berget it's not the largest chunk of cash by far.

Not speaking from a theoretical point of view here. I already had US woodland but went and got DPM to fit with the rest of the platoon.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 20:13
by STUNTMAN
Not so many. In this 5 years playing Berget games, it was a detail without no relevance.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 20:34
by DutchWolf
Buffel wrote:I'm curious how many people would drop out simply because of needing a new uniform. Compared to the overall costs of attending Berget it's not the largest chunk of cash by far.

Not speaking from a theoretical point of view here. I already had US woodland but went and got DPM to fit with the rest of the platoon.
No one we'd regret losing, if getting a new uniform is the thing that puts you off you're clearly not committed enough.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 21:21
by A_Muller
DutchWolf wrote:
Buffel wrote:I'm curious how many people would drop out simply because of needing a new uniform. Compared to the overall costs of attending Berget it's not the largest chunk of cash by far.

Not speaking from a theoretical point of view here. I already had US woodland but went and got DPM to fit with the rest of the platoon.
No one we'd regret losing, if getting a new uniform is the thing that puts you off you're clearly not committed enough.
Quoted for the truth.

Especially when it comes to buying a 30 dollar uniform...

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 22:28
by EagleDriver
There are enough green and tan based uniforms and camo patterns that I do not think it would be a problem. Keeping it to just Woodland BDU and desert DCU would be way to strict - different countries have different styles of green and/or tan camo. The arid camo's are usually grouped with tan (Multicam, AOR1, ACU/UCP, etc.)

Although this year for Pine Plains we moved ACU/UCP to the green team because the US Army units that are playing wanted to be on the green side--and since they host the game, they get to change the rules!

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 22:33
by Saveli_M
A_Muller wrote:
DutchWolf wrote:
Buffel wrote:I'm curious how many people would drop out simply because of needing a new uniform. Compared to the overall costs of attending Berget it's not the largest chunk of cash by far.

Not speaking from a theoretical point of view here. I already had US woodland but went and got DPM to fit with the rest of the platoon.
No one we'd regret losing, if getting a new uniform is the thing that puts you off you're clearly not committed enough.
Quoted for the truth.

Especially when it comes to buying a 30 dollar uniform...
Well, I have seen this to happen, and because of a 20USD uniform!

Of course, people going to a different country to play airsoft, SHOULD have little bit more of morale to buy an outfit assigned for them!
But I know there are lot's of ppl who will be furious because they cannot use their beloved good (and bizarre pattern) uniforms. All you have to do is check out the latest uniform topic ;)

To me, these "multipattern" armies look more like bunch of dirty bandits than a army battallions just because of all camo variations you can imagine. Naturally, different battallions may have another pattern, but if you got best of 20-30 guys in 200 wearing same camoflage pattern, it ain't gonna look no more than a somalian pirate group.

But really, if removing armbands from the game, armies should atleast have something in common. Afterall, there is no limits for weapons and other gear.

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 23:04
by STUNTMAN
About the old camos... for me wit's the 3rd camo that i buy for Berget.
Now, the Berget Events says Desert.

I got the desert 3 collors. I got one old one and a new one (with Velcro sleeves):

Image

Image

So for the Berget rules, are ok... so do you think that because an armband fixed on Velcro in the arm it's need to buy a new one?

I'm talking about the guys who don't have pocket velcro sleeves on it... but they got what Berget Events want... a Desert camo!

Posted: 13 Jun 2011, 23:52
by DutchWolf
@ Saveli_M
Well for one game you can buy a somewhat cheaper uniform, I mean come on it's three days. If you have to get a new set especially for berget get 3 sets of $20 uniforms, abuse the bejesus out of them and toss em in the bin on the way out.

@ Stuntnman
Don't really get what you're getting at?

Posted: 14 Jun 2011, 00:00
by STUNTMAN
DutchWolf wrote:@ Saveli_M


@ Stuntnman
Don't really get what you're getting at?
The actual rules say Desert for one side.
If the Armband rule just to be used on the velcro sleeve goes to be certain, there are guys with lots of old DESERT camos without no velcro sleeve who mus buy a new one... and in the same they got a desert one.

So do you think it's ok to buy a new one just because a new rule about armbands in velcro sleeves?

It's just that i'm saying... i've got both... so for me, no problem at all.

Posted: 14 Jun 2011, 00:01
by Saveli_M
DutchWolf wrote:@ Saveli_M
Well for one game you can buy a somewhat cheaper uniform, I mean come on it's three days. If you have to get a new set especially for berget get 3 sets of $20 uniforms, abuse the bejesus out of them and toss em in the bin on the way out.
To clarify: That is not really my opinion, I cannot see the problem, but I have seen this happen. I could order a new, cheap uniform with smile on my face :D

Last year I arranged WL Bdu's for me and my friends €10.00 a piece, so there was no anykind of argue about that. This year I've spent about €70.00 for clothing and I'm playing as civilian, so I agree that in every big event there must be some sacrifices to be done, Berget or Rock-festival, anyway, you still gotta spend some cash, food-beer-clothes...you name it.
I think so far this all has been worth every f***n cent! :lol:

I could only wish that most of the people are willing to do that too, yes, even spend that €10.00 for assigned outfit ;)
I ain't no rich, but I still can do it this.

Posted: 14 Jun 2011, 01:22
by DutchWolf
@ Saveli_M
:D that is the spirit and I fully agree, wish people would go that extra 10 bucks.

@ Stuntman
I recon that the armband-on-velcro-sleeve should be an optional one, if one's uniform doesn't have the velcro he can just wear a regular armband.
If that's not 'fair', fine yes then make them buy a new one. See above post by Saveli for argumentation.

But I like the whole 'abolishing the armbands altogether' a lot better to be honest.

Posted: 14 Jun 2011, 13:00
by STUNTMAN
Once more, yes i understand, but some guys might say:

Why buy another one just because a pocket when i have a regular one for the game.... it's just that.

Regards,

STUNTMAN

Posted: 14 Jun 2011, 14:35
by DutchWolf
...then keep your regular get an armband and be 'disadvantaged' compared to the pocket guys, I couldn't care less.

Just saying, the pocket-armband should be allowed. If people don't want to get a new uniform for that, great, good for them. No reason why the rest should have to suffer 'cause of them.