What really happen whit civilians at the end

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 9
Mixmaster
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 91
Joined: 23 Jan 2007, 22:49
Location: Norway
Contact:

Post by Mixmaster » 04 Jul 2011, 14:42

Ingame: UN shoud be responsible for building a UNICEF refugee camp somewhere safe. And evacuate all the civillians there. It is extreme dangerous being a civillian in the middle of a warzone. The one that stayed in this warzone did suffer a lot of casualities.

Offgame: Unfortunately. This innocent civillians getting killed in the most idiotic way by confused, triggerhappy and stressed soldiers. Is sadly very realistic.
UN was a part of NAF almost from the start. Janco was too close ans worked as a human shield for UN when Poldavian attacked UN from the only relistic angle to implement a attack.
Alexander Kvale
B3: Squad Leader
B5: Platoon Commander
B6: Company Commander
B9: Battalion Commander
B10: Battalion Commander
President of the The Norwegian Airsoft Association
http://www.NASF.no

L4gi
Captain
Captain
Posts: 492
Joined: 26 Jun 2008, 19:19
Location: Finland
Contact:

Post by L4gi » 04 Jul 2011, 14:43

The UN base was way too close to the town which caused most of the fighting to happen so close to "normal" civilians. UN didnt build any fortifications in to town either, just around their own little base.
B7 / B8 / B9 / B10 / B11 / B12 / B13 / B14 / B15 / B16 / B17

User avatar
Tor
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 58
Joined: 18 May 2010, 16:32

Post by Tor » 04 Jul 2011, 15:08

Those who played in the UN forces where outnumbered, had there base in a bad spot and
constantly had to baby sit the civilians. On top of that, we civilian had a in-game
policy of complaining if the UN did collaborate with any other armed factions (NAF),
since we clan leaders did not want to have armed forces in our town (not even UN).

I bow and give lots of kudos to all UN players who patiently where LARPing back
to us civilians, while being under constant pressure and hearing our nagging.

All respect to the UN players.
Tor (Mikael Olsson)
B8 : Civilian
B9 : Leader of the Tajiik Clan

User avatar
Lanzo
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 78
Joined: 28 Feb 2008, 15:36
Location: Sandefjord - Norway
Contact:

Post by Lanzo » 04 Jul 2011, 15:21

Mixmaster wrote:Ingame:
Offgame:
UN was a part of NAF almost from the start. Janco was too close ans worked as a human shield for UN when Poldavian attacked UN from the only relistic angle to implement a attack.
Just to make it clear Mix: UN was neutral with NAF because they did not point weapons and showed aggressions at us like Poldavia did to our patrol 20 minutes after gamestart;) as far as i know we had intentions of beeing neutral to all from gamstart.

We let you pass our controlposts on both sides of the city with UN escort with your whole mech bat after you pointed guns at our patrol.

We made a deal with NAF on thursday evening/night i think but that was because they wanted to talk to us unlike Poldavia, and since Poldavia showed hostile intents against UN and the city we thougt a allied was a good idea since we where outnubered bigtime.

But i think we can all agree that the UN base was in a bad spot with dense forrest on one side, high montains on the other side and Janco on the third side;)
Vestfold Milsim - Team S.R.O.G (Semi Retired Old Guys)
B7 - Nato MP 2ic
B8 - PSYOPS QRF Chief
B9 - UN
B10 - PSYOPS Spec Ops Com/Batl Cap Pol
B11 - Raven PSYOPS Chief
B12 - The allmighty UNISEC Sledgehammer Coy
B13 - Hades Police
B14 - NAF Mech
B15 - Mercs Coy Commander
B16 - NAF Mech

madsvg
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 21
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 15:20
Location: Norway

Post by madsvg » 04 Jul 2011, 15:33

Poldovian side, Batallion asset / Company Command Squad

ROE:
From the start of the game we had some clear rules, like don't fire on UN unless fired on, same with the firm. Try to localize Black ops and other strategic point.

What happened was that we got word from one of our leaders that the UN had opened fire on our troops, raining down an airstrike on one of our platoons near Janco without any particiluar provocation. (I say any particular as in no shooting) Later we also experienced airstrikes hitting our base around 9 am. several days in a row. And as we were pretty sure NAF didn't have any airstrikes in that amount it resultet in us thinking that the UN did preliminary bombardment.

Later it also seemed to every Poldovian out there that Berget Events had teamed up everyone else against Poldava after we kicked ass the first day.

It should also be mentioned that there was several times that we met the firm guys during the first 2 days that carried guns, but that they didn't act hostile or unfriendly, so that we just passed them by. This ended by thursday as one of our groups passed a group of firm guys and got shot in the back unprovoked.

UN: As mentioned above, as far as we knew it was the UN that opened up the hostilities on Pol, by launching an airstrike. Also: as someone mentioned, going through Janco was the only viable way to get to the UN base.

Civis: I'm sorry about the behaviour of some of the guys on my side, but it have to be mentioned that several "unmarked", aka non firm civis pulled guns and fired upon us. I personally got taken out by two civis that was in the forest before our major attack agains the UN, late on friday. One of my teammates actually managed to get them to give up without firing his weapon, and as they got out of their position and passed me by (before everyone got hit by UN airstrikes) I noticed that they didn't have the firm markings and no blue shirts, but they carried guns all the same.

Blackops/firm: They got a mixed history in my book. From day 1 we were cautious about these guys and pretty sure that something was wrong. Late on wedensday we got reports and intel about guys riding in firm cars wearing blue armbands. From that point on it was mostly shoot on sight to be on the safe side.

In general:
Most of us Poldovians got the feeling by day 2 that berget events had pooled everything against us. Every time we tried to push out and take a point we were met with blackops, firm and NAF guys working in unison. When we tried to get close to the city we were fired upon.
Whenever we had an engagement with UN forces, NAF showed up.
When we tried to attack the UN through the city we came under fire from the buildings.
Whenever we planned a mission and told BE about it, there was massive enemy forces waiting for us with ambushes ready etc.

So after all that, and espescially after the things involving BE we stopped involving BE in some of our major plans, like attacking the NAF base late on thursday. And it worked out much better then.

All in all there is allways something negative that comes from a game, and it's frustratingly enough those things that people remember. But as one of the game masters told me after I lost my head over a squad that never took hits: "there are 1600 people playing here and only a handfull of game masters. With this many players there's allways going to be bad eggs and there's not enough game masters to oversee everything. It's just a part of how things are, and we need to live with that."

Also: the best moment of the game, sneaking in as undercover poldovians on the first day and actually tricking UN forces into believing that we were from the press. :D

Also 2: I think the OD guys had a bit too much fun ambusing people, I think I've never seen anyone as happy and smug as those guys after taking out yet another vehicle through ambush. ^^
Berget 7 - NATO 1st Platoon
Berget 8 - NATO 2nd Platoon
Berget 9 - Poldovia 5th Infantry
Berget 10 - Poldovia 5th Infanty Recon Squad
Berget 11 - Ravens Guerilla
Berget 13 - Ikaros Mechanized, Hermes 3, Balder 4
Berget 16 - NAF Rangers, Bravo 2

User avatar
yasirotta
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 36
Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 15:33

Post by yasirotta » 04 Jul 2011, 15:34

Crapgame wrote: four!
@ yasirotta
Why did you not contact the game-masters, marshalls or Trustees (must have been at least one in Janco) and take the armband numbers of those you thought where cheating?
I did contact, and gave details for catching the guys.
Point is, Berget Crew is totally working already, and we just give them more work. I understand if these guys never made got caught, but always even Staff cant help. Anyway, they was contacted.

Second!
Poldavia didnt attack Janco, we attacked the UN once and after that both firm and UN started firing on Poldavians every time we tried to enter the city so dont push us over the line! thats why some players started shooting before asking after that, espescially if you where armed!!
I must say i disagree.
I was got caught while Poldavia wanted took control of Janco, they said it themself. Poldavia also used Janco as their footstep to attack UN base, so they did much harm for civilians. That civ´s massacre was last drop, when we started to do packing and left game before it ended. I was first unarmed, but lots of us picked guns at the end when we saw that theres no point to surrender, we got killed anyway.
B5 - FFF
B7 - Milo's Tigers
B8 - Captured Civilians
B9 - Civilians, Mineworkers

mc205
Private
Private
Posts: 17
Joined: 30 Dec 2010, 11:10
Location: Italy

Post by mc205 » 04 Jul 2011, 16:02

I understand very well how difficult it is to disconnect from the game but, my friend, the game is over, come back in the real world and do not nourish unnecessary and nasty flames.

Doc

User avatar
Saveli_M
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 110
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 21:04
Location: Finland, Hattula

Post by Saveli_M » 04 Jul 2011, 16:28

Hell_Viking wrote:Well, i had quite a bit of LARPing with the civ. And it was great fun !
And when we issued traffictickets people acted realy well. We had everything from payment upfront, to lawsuit againgt the UN for breaking international law because of a seatbelt ticket ! Great job LARPers !
I've heard you guys made me a wanted for not paying the ticket because of that seatbelt. Well actually it was you UN guys that pushed me away just before I was going to pay the haggled price, and then hell broke with Poldavians (i think?) and I was commanded to move away and fast from the firefight.
BUT that was sure a big fun! AND I got away from your long arm of law :D

I did drive around from place to place with no weapons or my firm badge, and I was stopped for inspection maybe 10 times, mostly by Poldavian forces.
2 times I was blown up with BAVs, my opinion for no reason, but I did not complain about it, I guess they had their trigger finger itching or just got their reasons/orders for that.
Mostly I did got away from these situations with no damage by just talking a LOT OF BULLS**T (larp'ed myself away from it) :D
I also managed to make some cash with it, wich was nice!

I think that most of the people treated me as they should have being, without knewing I was working for the FIRM (If you shoulded just take a sneek peek into my van's cabin, you might found out my 'firm'-headgear just between front seats!)

But being in Janco was kind of scary situation, because you could not actually help yourself much when soldiers rushed towards you. Very tense I say.

PS. Thanks you Pol guys at Degas for giving me 75 dollars for my information, BUT you shoulded pay me more. For 75 bucks I gave 'em a information about NAF's below that hill, but instead of giving you information of that about 100+ NAF troops, for 75$ you got number of 5-10 troops :lol:
"Do not worry, I've got closegrinder right here!"
B8 - Poldavian 1st Inf. Medic / APC Crew
B9 - The FIRM / Zansian B04 / Van Crew
B10 - Zanzian "Black Guard" Infantry Btt.
B11 - GCT Taskforce / Echo-Niner
B12 - --- SPAM !!! ---

User avatar
motorhead
Captain
Captain
Posts: 351
Joined: 22 Mar 2008, 15:25
Location: Hönefoss, Norway

Post by motorhead » 04 Jul 2011, 17:29

Roleplaying truly functional UN or NATO units with airsofters is quite frankly useless due to the weekend-skirm short-term mindset of most airsoft players.

Example 1:
In Lebanon in the eighties - UN never had air support or heavy artillery and always had to use the negotiating power of UN and most always be in a reactive, defensive position. Our troops never engaged in aggressive actions and mostly policed the Ao with limited powers. I was a radio operator for a year there and witnessed the radio traffic from my safe bunker. UN roleplaying in an airsoft context mostly makes me smirk and giggle since BE don't seem to function as the umbrella political mediator the real UN has to IRL.

UN personell have to be screened and selected differently than ordinary, more aggressive soldiers. After all, blue headwear, always visible UN troops don't have the leverage or fire power or even mandate to pose a threat to big regional military forces.

Example 2:
Same goes for NATO roleplaying - there must always be an ingame "brigade HQ" or "NATO HQ" functionality that sets the political and strategic objectives and ROE.

This - to say the least - is not realistic to roleplay in an airsoft context. Unless we get a better storyline involving some basic, more realistic political storylines and HQ orders to follow :D
Last edited by motorhead on 04 Jul 2011, 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

User avatar
BRITISH-
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 51
Joined: 20 Oct 2008, 09:05
Location: Italy

Post by BRITISH- » 04 Jul 2011, 18:27

This is my 3rd Bereget event, again this year I had a great time and enjoyed the whole the event, HOWEVER I have never come a cross so much cheating in any other event (italy, sweden, uk) as the last 2 hours of game play in Janco city, I was a Poldavain company comander with the 5th, we were trying to hold the UN base from falling into Naf hands (all of the UN players went game off at 1pm) during the last 2 hours of the game my company got pushed back into Janco city where we were attacked by both Naf and Civilians, during this time I watch civilian players get hit after hit without taking the hit. Then at 2.30pm, Naf players turned up in force (several cars) and started to "rambo" around again not taking their hits( i was dead at this stage and watching what was going on as the respawn closed at 2pm).
one of my platoon comanders called over a Berget crew marshal to point out this cheating the crew members answer " I don't care" !!!!!!!!!

this is the first time in 3 years of berget events that I have seen such bad sportmanship from other players (you always get a few but there were just too many at the end of game a janco city).
It makes me cross when I then read other threads where it was suggesterd that Italians don't play fairly, I can safetly say I know all 74 of the Italian players this year(poldavian side) they are MILSIM players that know how to take their hits and follow orders.

looking forward to next years event and hopefully some more berget crew at the "final battle"
Berget 7 squad leader lima 0
Berget 8 comms officer 1st Pold. Penguin 3
Berget 9 Romeo Coy Commander 5th Pold.

User avatar
Jin
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 94
Joined: 13 May 2010, 11:13
Location: Estonia-Finland-England

Post by Jin » 04 Jul 2011, 19:36

Poldavian 1st Coy,2nd SL

We're ordered to move on the hill west from Janco city.
Once we reach the hill,we been attacked by UN,we push them back to Janco,and been attacked by Civs from the building near the hill.
We lost 3-4 guys there,and we was trying to get them out from there with our medics and some other guys,and been attacked again.
So only way to retrieve those guys was to clear all hostile forces around them...

But then...all went upsidedown,i personally never killed a single civilians,but civilians was attacking us (with green-white armband)
Berget 8: 23nd NAF - Fox 5
Berget 9: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers, 1st coy, 2nd PLTC
Berget 10: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers

User avatar
Rythm
Captain
Captain
Posts: 312
Joined: 03 Jul 2011, 21:17
Location: Sweden & Germany

Post by Rythm » 04 Jul 2011, 20:36

Talisman wrote:I was one of the guys at the north roadblock at the time. I must say that we were all really pissed. Even if the orders changed, how about: "You are not welcome here anymore, go away or we open fire"? Instead some guys got a real swarm of bullets hitting them in their ears, heads and other hurtful places.
The orders were to open fire on you, not to ask you to leave. Remember that we were outnumbered 1-4 against you and it was mere hours after the first taking of the UN base. We were scared of you! That the RoE could have changed after the attack is a no-brainer IMHO. And i actually did wait until your commander was 15 meters away before ordering fire, safety first after all.
Tiger1 wrote:I came to have big fights with other airsofters that offered me as a commander a tactical challenge, I did NOT come to berget to watch a small nr of players play dress up and having to give up my weapon for the privilege!!!!
Too bad that you do not want to respect the other players and the fact that all have different interest. I do hope people with a broader view on the game and the participants will be commanders in the future.
crapgame wrote:Third!
TO The UN you where hostile from the begining and if you want to go around being sour about being shoot at then ask your leaders why you where not neutral and why you did not back down (as real UN would) when a threat appears. Dont blaim us for shooting when you where hostile!
BAD LARP in the UN
As already mentioned this is not true. And i think i speak for all UN players when i say that after a single look at the geography of our base, and the low amount of players, being overrun was the one thing we could be sure about. Noone is sour about that, we chose to play this side after all.
Mixmaster wrote:UN was a part of NAF almost from the start.
As already stated, this is not true at all. We had several firefights with them, we planned to bomb their base, we destroyed the canon that they wanted to use on Poldavian forces, we fed them false info etc etc.
Tor wrote:I bow and give lots of kudos to all UN players
Thank you! That really makes me want to come back for more. LARP is a important part of a biggame i think, and i enjoy it immensly.
Madsvg wrote:UN: As mentioned above, as far as we knew it was the UN that opened up the hostilities on Pol, by launching an airstrike. Also: as someone mentioned, going through Janco was the only viable way to get to the UN base.
The first UN airstrike was against the large Poldavian force that overran the southern checkpoint at noon thursday. The one that after that ovarran Janco and then the UN base. The UN base could easily be reached from both the east (over the hill where many attacks came from), the north (where poldavians on friday placed a roadblock, lots of woods to sneak up to the base), the west thru dense woods. IMHO all directions other than thru Janco was better since an attack thru Janco ALWAYS gave us a good heads-up on that something was comming. The other directions didnt give us that advantage. Going thru Janco was the least viable way to attack the UN base. Even more so on Friday and Saturday when it was obvious that the Firm would engage Poldavian forces if they attacked Janco.
Jin wrote:We're ordered to move on the hill west from Janco city.
Once we reach the hill,we been attacked by UN,we push them back to Janco
This was actually a meeting engagement, we were moving to a point further south of you when our vehicleborn recce-team took fire south of Janco. I am quite proud that it took you lot more than 15 minutes to kill us 29 UN soldiers that were present and reach the hill.

---

So the best advice we can give BE is to continue with LARP, but put the town in a no-weapons zone of sorts. Any other suggestions?
6mm.se

B9: UN - Platoon commander
B10: Zansian Black Guards - Platoon commander
B11: Ravens - Company commander/Intel officer
B12: Ravens - 2 in Command
B13: Ikaros - 2iC
B15: Mercs - 2iC
B17: GFM - 2iC

User avatar
HORNET
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 59
Joined: 10 May 2008, 22:36
Location: Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by HORNET » 04 Jul 2011, 20:54

madsvg wrote:Poldovian side, Batallion asset / Company Command Squad

In general:
Most of us Poldovians got the feeling by day 2 that berget events had pooled everything against us. ^^
We NAF also had that same feeling as BE had pooled everything against us,
By the way we were approximately 350 NAF players in total, and a BE GM told me Poldava were 600+ players.
Berget- 6 NATO / Fox Coy / Fox-4 Squad Leader
Berget- 7 NATO / Fox Coy / Fox-4 Platoon Leader
Berget- 8 NAF23 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander
Berget- 9 NAF6 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander
Berget-10 NAF23 / Fox Coy / Coy Commander

User avatar
Rectunator
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 53
Joined: 11 Dec 2010, 15:20
Location: Free City of Oulu, Finland

Post by Rectunator » 04 Jul 2011, 21:22

Then there was us, the Firm, who knew that when it came to finding I-Heal, we would be against everyone. Good thing the Poldavian leaders hired us to get it when they heard the Zansians were about to capture it.
Last edited by Rectunator on 04 Jul 2011, 21:42, edited 1 time in total.
Berget 9 - Zansian Black Ops, J10 Medic, The Firm.

User avatar
Robin-Hood
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 145
Joined: 28 Mar 2010, 18:17

Post by Robin-Hood » 04 Jul 2011, 21:42

Seeing as you are clearly pointing fingers, as a regular Poldavian soldier at my first Berget, I shall try to express my opinion and experience.

I only saw two or three encounters with NAF players through the entire game, every other contact was against Civilians/Firm or the UN and, except the final attack on Janco, was initiated by them. So please excuse me if I completely lost trust in the Civilian populace towards the end of the game. To try and LARP only to be engaged every time despite acting completely neutral towards these factions wore me down quite significantly. As a character to constantly hear about patrols going missing around Janco and my friends being mown down when trying to peacefully pass through a town, in their own country, supposedly protected by a neutral force, yeah obviously my character wouldn't react positively to that. The knife kills goes both ways, I was knifed killed incessantly by Civilians as I tried to interact with them and did not once commit one myself. Really in my opinion you only brought it on yourself.

If you didn't want to fight the Poldavians then you shouldn't have engaged us at what seemed every opportunity. Of course if you shoot someone they will treat you as hostile!

And Firm/Zansians. I had a lot of fun fighting you guys that night towards the power lines. I'm sure you know what I mean. Kudos to you for being such a formidable force.

Note - I did not read the whole thread, I just got back and I'm tired.

Post Reply