improvement suggestions for B10

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 9
Wynn
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Post by Wynn » 11 Jul 2011, 23:16

Well, Berget Crew as overall commanders for the different units would ease the logistics a lot.

UN does not function in an airsoft enviroment. It will only draw fire and placing it next to the village made the problem even bigger. Had fun larping with the UN guys but I knew it would go downhill eventually.


There are always problems with the armbands, perhaps next year we could get our player ID'd armbands at checkin made by BE. That way they would be of the correct size and shade. I would even give up on getting a berget shirt for free as making an armband is quite a hazzle every single time. This year we got away a bit easier as Pete ordered them from the guy here in forums that was making them. Still needed to make the blue one thought...


Just my 0.02 berget dollars.
Cheers.
-Wynn
- Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
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Panzergraf
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Post by Panzergraf » 12 Jul 2011, 04:34

Post an official re-cap of the game soon after it's done.
At the moment, there's nothing on the front page even telling me the game is actually over.
It was like this last year too.

It's not a big deal, but it would be nice.
Also, I'm not asking you to announce a "winner" or whatever, just a small re-cap of who did what and what actually happened from a neutral and top-down perspective would be nice.
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Lex
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Post by Lex » 13 Jul 2011, 16:27

suggestion: mb more fair play, no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5CLgLO6_YE
B7: Orlov's Mercs, 1st Russian coy, 1st platoon, 1st squad
B8: 1st Poldavian batalion, 3rd Russian coy, 1st platoon, 4th squad
B9: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers, 1st Russian coy, 2nd platoon, 3rd squad
B10: ****, * Russian coy, * platoon, * squad

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aidynskas
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Post by aidynskas » 13 Jul 2011, 16:32

Lex wrote:suggestion: mb more fair play, no?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5CLgLO6_YE
The sounds isn't very good, did I miss something? Did they say anything against the rules?

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A_Muller
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Post by A_Muller » 13 Jul 2011, 17:18

Yeah really, what are you getting at Lex?
The only thing I can imagine that you're reacting to is that he's wearing his wounded flag while talking, and he can just very well have forgotten to remove it (there is a medic band on him so that could be the case).
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grasulas
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Post by grasulas » 13 Jul 2011, 18:19

A_Muller wrote:Yeah really, what are you getting at Lex?
The only thing I can imagine that you're reacting to is that he's wearing his wounded flag while talking, and he can just very well have forgotten to remove it (there is a medic band on him so that could be the case).
I hope you are sarcastic, no serious pls tell me you are sarcastic.
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Buffel
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Post by Buffel » 13 Jul 2011, 19:24

Well at least he was briefing his command while wearing the RIGHT COLOUR dead rag.... LOL.
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A_Muller
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Post by A_Muller » 13 Jul 2011, 20:30

I've seen guys on both sides run around shooting with death rags on, having forgotten to take them off.

I've also forgotten that I had mine on but luckily was told by my men before I headed out.
Anything other than that I honestly don't see what you mean; I hear a brief on visual contacts while wearing a death rag (which COULD be a misstake, something that we won't know and is pretty damned pointless to discuss in EVERY SINGLE DAMNED THREAD). If you see anything else then say so or just let it go.
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Lex
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Post by Lex » 14 Jul 2011, 09:27

aidynskas wrote:The sounds isn't very good, did I miss something? Did they say anything against the rules?
hm.. that 2 guys, reporting batalion commander about Pol base are... off game (orange flag) and not allowed to talk with ingame man about game sittuation and results of their mission (untill they resp, of couse).

forget to remove flag? Both? No one noticed them about it? Good sarcasm, really.

The most shocking point for me: High rank officer and Berget Trustee took part in this breaking rule without any shy.



anyway, there are a lot of problems with following rules and ignoring it - bad way to change the sittuation.
B7: Orlov's Mercs, 1st Russian coy, 1st platoon, 1st squad
B8: 1st Poldavian batalion, 3rd Russian coy, 1st platoon, 4th squad
B9: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers, 1st Russian coy, 2nd platoon, 3rd squad
B10: ****, * Russian coy, * platoon, * squad

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Blackwolf
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Post by Blackwolf » 14 Jul 2011, 14:04

Hello

What about Poldavian cars driving to and around missions with their BAVS turned OFF all day long.

This is also documented on Youtube by my Bulgarian troops.

So i think rules where broken by both sides.

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Alberto
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Post by Alberto » 14 Jul 2011, 15:19

Gentlemen,

I believe this topic was created for improvement suggestions for B10. Your discussion about who cheated and who didn't are not subject of this topic.

Please try to be constructive and suggest something or go open your own topic for claims. Thanks.
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Kayco
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Post by Kayco » 14 Jul 2011, 16:03

spin_t wrote:Let's see :
- No static HQ staff,but clearly good comms.
- No people who r register themselfs on one unit and then r just going where they like.
- No people who r joining a MILSIM game and don't want to walk in order to fullfill the missions.
- No people who r joining a MILSIM game and do not understand that they should obey a given order
- No people whithout basic equipment ( 15 from 23 people from my unit did not have radio )
- No lazy GMHQ ( people waiting from 09:00 till 11:00-12:00 to receive the first order...)
- Banned from the game for not respecting the rules ( like in the real life,not knowing the rules is not an excuse,READ THE RULES ! )
I would like to see also a youtube video with 3-4 people sended home from Berget for not respecting the rules...how many will disobey after ?

So,IMHO i think Berget Crew should impose more stricted rules and also to watch that this rules r respected,if the main goal will be just "as more players=as more money",in 2-3 years the all mighty Berget will become just a crap game,a meeting place for all the Europe airsoft retards ( half of them was already there this year).
If you decide to come to this game,that means you understand what a MILSIM game is and you r ready to act propperly. If not,stay the --- SPAM !!! --- home and leave us play !

Amin !
+1 !!!

and additional:

All sides needs a Brigade HQ Staff or something like that as " base organisations and commando unit". Think this is not the responsibility of BE, but BE could support that :wink: . Actually this should be a internal solution of the sides. If no one sign up for this jobs, the BAT commanders should pledge or headhunt the guys in preperations of the game of course via recognitions awards or something like thats. Its important to get a central collecting point for commanders, intels, informations, rules, orders from BE and Base-affairs.

Furthermore, we need a clearly and documented rule-summary maybe in a little book in the HQ and categorical in the pocket of every Gamemaster. We got really enough GM´s in the field (good Job!), but not the same rules-status between the different GM´s. We got different statements from different GMs about ONE Rule...or better: I´ve got the answer for a rule-question from a GM: "I don´t know" :?
Its would be good, if the GM´s will check up the players during ingame under the rules and send players back to the bases, e.g. if they wear the wrong uniformcolor or use overchroned weapons (big problem this year = needs ingame chronos). This is not a big effort and after one or two banishments of players, who forget the main-rules, the natural momentum of cheatings will be decreased during the game :wink:
Last edited by Kayco on 14 Jul 2011, 16:08, edited 1 time in total.
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EagleDriver
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Post by EagleDriver » 14 Jul 2011, 16:06

Rule card
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I was surprised when a ref was demanding that people move their armbands to the RIGHT arm. I thought it was the left arm. A PDF file of the rules could be printed out and carried by each ref (each player, too.) There would be no confusion about the rules.

Team strength
-----------------
Going into my first Berget game and knowing from experience how lopsided team sizes can make for frustrating game play, I went into Berget 9 with the idea that I would have a good time playing and not worry about winning. While the odds were so stacked against us, numerically it wasn't realistic to obtain a complete victory. I also joined the NAF knowing this--but also knowing that the players on the underdog team usually get more action per player than on the larger time.

Some of my fellow players were not as enthusiastic about the difference in numbers, however, especially after a lot of NAF players did not even show up after signing up and paying. Limiting the size of each side during registration would help to maintain playability. For example, initial registration could be capped at 300 players per side--and the cap moves to 400 when both sides reach 300. Then the cap moves to 500 when both reach 400, etc.

Team patch
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I know that I suggested an alternative to arm bands in another thread, but I had another idea while at Berget - team patch colors. So, for example, NAF would have a team patch that is blue on the left shoulder. Poldavians would have a red team patch that is red on the left shoulder. Patches would be a minimum size (11cm tall, for example,) and could differ per unit (Ranger, Mountaineer, Mech, etc.) but would have to be mostly the team color. This would promote team unity as well as satisfying team color requirements.

Unit size
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I would like to see the unit size standardized. I personally like to use the 11 man squad for airsoft (it was the default US Army infantry squad size before the introduction of the Bradley fighting vehicle--which could only fit 9). The 11 man squad is broken down into one Squad Leader and two five man fire teams, each with a fire team leader.

A platoon is then made up of 4 or more squads, and a company made up of 4 or more platoons. This way we know, in advance, how many squads and platoons we have, how many squad leaders, platoon leaders, etc.

Info board
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I know that if properly employed, an info board for HQ use is a great tool.

When I am a Platoon or Company commander at MILSIM games over here, I have a large magnetic white board that I use (1.2 meters x .9 meters in size.) I use chart tape to map out the buildings and terrain, and counters to indicate friendly units, enemy contacts, building status (friendly or hostile), artillery targets, etc. I also have smaller counters to indicate morale (I use morale as a measure of how long a unit has been static and out of combat--how bored they are), REDCON (readiness condition--medic bandages, food, ammo, etc.)

Since it is a dry erase white board, I can also use markers to make quick comments on the map. In conjunction with encrypted radio channels or code words, we are able to determine and effectively keep track of company assets and their locations. Gone are the days of someone asking "who is shooting at us from building 12?" and we scramble to find out. Looking at the board we have almost everything we need to know.

I would be happy to help anyone set up such a board if they are interested.

Paid meals
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Have the meals as cold boxed lunch type of meals available an hour before the start of game-on (0800) each day. This way units that are in the field all day can take their meals with them when they go out.
B9 NAF, 3rd Ranger Btn, 2IC B4 Company
B10 NAF Guy who talks all day to the cute girls serving the food in base.

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Post by Smokey » 14 Jul 2011, 17:05

Some points I think might improve future games:

- A permanent BergetCrew-Liasion at the HQ's that oversees the overall gameflow and makes sure the given side "is on track" - story and missions wise - and who can make sure that different units and players aren't "forgotten", by a simple stroll through the camp, or by asking HQ about the status of the different units. This liasion can then also hand out, or suggest missions (which would intersect with my next point) to HQ for units that have nothing to do, as he should have a good overview of the state of the game. With the liasion not being part of the actual chain of command, he could ensure that the game does not veer off into weird directions, while the players are still allowed to "do their thing".

- Something like a missions roster/ "missions that are up for grabs" list (in some form or another), so that units or groups of players with nothing to do can volunteer for a mission that's story relevant, or at least beneficial for the given side. This to prevent frustrated players or units to go off on solo-adventures and mindless rambo-runs with no point.

- Clear orders and assignments of missions; getting told to be ready and good for action at 09:00 only to wait for a mission for a few hours is disheartening and the waiting time could have been spent better on a small mission or in the sleeping bag, especially after long nights. Getting up tired yet motivated, only to wait for hours to get something to do, can quickly lead to being tired and demotivated rather the motivated when the order actually comes (I'm not implying this is a reason to go all whiny and not to do your job, but it's a fact that you'll be less motivated and more tired due to getting up early just to be told to "wait for orders").


All of these points really come down to the need for clear organisation and structure. I realize that this an airsoft game, with volunteers manning the HQ - which makes it harder to do this effectively, which is why a structuring influence and general supervision from BE of the different HQ's would seem beneficial to me.
This can be done with the help of the "liasion" as outlined, who can also take on an in-game role as "advisor to the president sent to oversee the conflict" or whatever to provide in-game justification for his presence.
BE could also provide advice and help with the supervision of the troops, just by sending a few GM's out into the camp and checking on people, and whether they're having a good time.

And one last point - making the chrono print-outs into stickers that *have* to go onto the given weapon would make it easier to verify that a gun has been chronoed before, and is quicker to point to if there is a dispute about the gun's fps.
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Robin-Hood
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Post by Robin-Hood » 14 Jul 2011, 17:24

EagleDriver wrote:Rule card

Team strength

Team patch

Unit size

Info board

Paid meals
Smokey wrote:Some points I think might improve future games:

- A permanent BergetCrew-Liasion at the HQ's

- Something like a missions roster/ "missions that are up for grabs" list

- Clear orders and assignments of missions

- Chrono Sticker / Tag on the weapon
+1 to all of these, especially those in bold. I think that would improve the overall experience quite significantly!

Also regarding the chrono, some of the weapons we had chrono'd were given the wrong tag, we saw the chrono readings saying like 105, 107, 104 etc. Then we got the 110-130m/s tag which was really annoying as I normally choose not to use a side arm and I was now given a ten metre MED rather than a 1 metre MED. Not a major issue but definitely a pain in the rear.

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