improvement suggestions for B10

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 9
User avatar
freno
Berget Trustee
Berget Trustee
Posts: 1155
Joined: 13 May 2007, 21:16
Location: Sweden

Post by freno » 14 Jul 2011, 19:37

To have a strong hq, should be a work for Bat.commander, and could be sceduled. When its not impossible to organice base-defence, its not impossible to make the same inside hq!?! Still its a good idea for BE, to support it and help!
ВДВ-69
B5 - B12 Yes!
B13 - Mr. PINK
B14 - BBB - V.President
B15 - MIA
B16 - Bartender
B17 - Bartender

User avatar
Tiger_1
Berget Trustee
Berget Trustee
Posts: 907
Joined: 26 Nov 2007, 13:14
Location: Norway

Post by Tiger_1 » 14 Jul 2011, 19:46

Just to clear something up, berget game HQ IS our overall commanders, they give us orders as a higher hq. So that part is taken care of.
What we need are PLAYERS that are willing to preform the HQ function in game, and help the unit commanders coordinate their missions and information. This is a job that will give people a great insight into airsoft command, and should be something anyone wanting to be an airsoft commander should do before he takes higher command. But this job those of course mean that your chance to shoot anyone is next to none...

I must ask one thing. Do players expect to know everything that goes on at berget? Because then I suggest that you play 10 on 10 games at home. There is NO WAY that ALL information that passes during the game can be give to everyone. You need to accept that if you are a inf squad member, you do NOT need to know everything your BN commander does. I am not saying that leaders should not share, but please take all info you get as a bonus from people that have a lot on their mind, and ask if you feel you are missing important info, being a airsoft commander is hard, do not add to that by requesting information that is not really important for your role in the game! If you want to know a lot, join a HQ and help us solve the problem talked about above ;)

As for BAVS, I own several systems, and we have used them in game in Norway, and the nr one complaint was "make them reset their sensor" we called in the car, test fired, and the sensor when off. BAVS takes some skill now and again. I am not saying that some players did not forget to reset their sensor, but scoring hits is NOT just a question of point and shoot in all situations.
"go to your God like a soldier!"

User avatar
freno
Berget Trustee
Berget Trustee
Posts: 1155
Joined: 13 May 2007, 21:16
Location: Sweden

Post by freno » 14 Jul 2011, 19:56

That's what i mean also... bat.co can't make it all. There should be players assign for that duty also. It seams to be important to have this info for the players, but someone must assign for the job...
ВДВ-69
B5 - B12 Yes!
B13 - Mr. PINK
B14 - BBB - V.President
B15 - MIA
B16 - Bartender
B17 - Bartender

User avatar
motorhead
Captain
Captain
Posts: 351
Joined: 22 Mar 2008, 15:25
Location: Hönefoss, Norway

Post by motorhead » 14 Jul 2011, 21:13

Greetings, Freno. And thanks for last year and my personal favourite Berget!
The key success factors at B8 were mainly that we were able to compensate for the crappy, non-refuelled or failing Berget-repeaters by means of cell phones and good info-flow in all directions.

And most importantly - you Pete, Olli, Arbiterman, Ovidius and Johan as CO's were present or available on short notice to take the necessary decisions based on the loads of intel and HQ map data me and Lokke plotted for you. You/we were also able to make an info board outside the HQ tent that was working well.

That meant most critical 3-Battalion HQ success factors were in place at B8, but not this year for us. I see no reason to repeat the latter, so I hope B10 can make a functional HQ concept going.

Maybe the time for dedicated radio operators/chart plotters is over, and with every CO having his set of 1-3 radios and 2 cell phones there simply are other HQ concepts more workable in this epic big airsoft game.

New spec-ops concepts of securing the long range COM can add an interesting dimension and breathe new life into the gameplay. :wink:
Last edited by motorhead on 17 Jul 2011, 01:49, edited 1 time in total.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

Lex
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 27
Joined: 14 May 2009, 20:49

Post by Lex » 15 Jul 2011, 08:26

Tiger_1 wrote:I must ask one thing. Do players expect to know everything that goes on at berget? Because then I suggest that you play 10 on 10 games at home. There is NO WAY that ALL information that passes during the game can be give to everyone. You need to accept that if you are a inf squad member, you do NOT need to know everything your BN commander does. I am not saying that leaders should not share, but please take all info you get as a bonus from people that have a lot on their mind, and ask if you feel you are missing important info, being a airsoft commander is hard, do not add to that by requesting information that is not really important for your role in the game! If you want to know a lot, join a HQ and help us solve the problem talked about above ;)
what's the problem with several Berget Crew in HQ, who will make little debriefing (get info, print it, put it on info desk), so BN commander don't worry about this at all? Do it several times a day. Not hard work, imho. What was the mission, for what it was, how it was providing and what was the result.
B7: Orlov's Mercs, 1st Russian coy, 1st platoon, 1st squad
B8: 1st Poldavian batalion, 3rd Russian coy, 1st platoon, 4th squad
B9: Poldavian 3rd Montaineers, 1st Russian coy, 2nd platoon, 3rd squad
B10: ****, * Russian coy, * platoon, * squad

User avatar
Tiger_1
Berget Trustee
Berget Trustee
Posts: 907
Joined: 26 Nov 2007, 13:14
Location: Norway

Post by Tiger_1 » 15 Jul 2011, 09:22

It might come as a supprise, but Berget is run by a rather small nr of people. The people involved with missions and game structure, are needed at the game HQ to coordinate the actions of ALL factions. As serveral people have pointed out, Berget GM are often not up to speed on events, or what has happend. If berget should start someting, it is getting their own people up to speed, THEN they can start working on suggestions like yours. But as we all know running a big event takes a LOT of work and coordination, do we really want berget to focus on standing around telling people what has happend? I really dont see how this will make a better game, all you are causing is more information channels, and a greater prospect of people getting wrong or outdated information. For information on ongoing things you need to ask your chain of command! And I can not say this enought, you NEED TO ASK! Your officers are doing 10k things at the same time, and most of them will not go over to give you a rundown on the situation, as they are probaly deeply innvolved in the next one. I know people like and want to know, but for a large game like berget, chances are, that outside your own unit, you will not really know what is going on.

As Panzergraf said in a post here, Berget should post a overall after game report, that tells the factions storys and missions. So everyone knows what happend during the game. I was a Bn commander, and I only really know what happend to my unit, and the overall objektivs and missions of the other Pol units. But that is also really all I need to know to do my job...

For berget to focus on information sharing as it's nr one priority, this will mean getting more people to do more work, so expect you ticket price to go up.

Just to make one thing clear, I dont work for berget, nor do I agree with everyting they do, or with all aspects of how they run their game, but as I also have been running big games, I understand their problems, and frustrations.
"go to your God like a soldier!"

User avatar
motorhead
Captain
Captain
Posts: 351
Joined: 22 Mar 2008, 15:25
Location: Hönefoss, Norway

Post by motorhead » 15 Jul 2011, 09:39

Lex wrote: what's the problem with several Berget Crew in HQ, who will make little debriefing (get info, print it, put it on info desk), so BN commander don't worry about this at all? Do it several times a day. Not hard work, imho. What was the mission, for what it was, how it was providing and what was the result.
Well said. The idea is to have a rear, static HQ in addition to the FOB - providing inbase info and a contact point for all players in base. With so many players out in the field solving missions - the Bat CO's will have their hands full with infield tasks. Especially if they lead their people from the front like this year. The rear echelon duties tend to be forgotten then.

With some rotating BE crew and a minimum staff at each game faction main base HQ this should be fully possible. This year too few volunteered for Poldavian HQ duty. Unfortunately, or should we say - "luckily enough" there was little radio traffic to handle due to failing longrange COM this year, again.

There's no way I'm gonna operate that HQ radio alone in the future like this year. I was helped through the worst by a back-injured Irish player, injured dutchman NL-Lexxie, injured Norwegians Tok and Flygel - which was nice and necessary. Thanks to you all.

We were able to do it with 2 radio-operators last year at B8, but as said the surrounding in-base staff from PsyOps and 1st inf. Bat were always around to help us with putting up info boards and relaying and dealing with the info-flow we dealt with around the HQ-map, radios and cell-phones ingame.

Edit: As Tiger_1 correctly point out the relative small number of BE-staff are already dealing with a massive logistic nightmare and coordination job. WE as players need to step up and volunteer for HQ duty. There's IMHO no way around the fact that a 3-batallion game faction needs tighter coordination and a better Brigade-level HQ in the future.

That means there must be some higher-level officers with the power to take decisons and issue new missions orders and provide in-base player info around the HQ-map/radios. Radio-operators without the proper authority or resources like an inbase QRF and base-defense rotation scheme will only get this HQ-concept at a minimum function level.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

User avatar
Kayco
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 127
Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 22:48
Location: Germany

Post by Kayco » 15 Jul 2011, 12:14

motorhead wrote:
Lex wrote: what's the problem with several Berget Crew in HQ, who will make little debriefing (get info, print it, put it on info desk), so BN commander don't worry about this at all? Do it several times a day. Not hard work, imho. What was the mission, for what it was, how it was providing and what was the result.
Well said. The idea is to have a rear, static HQ in addition to the FOB - providing inbase info and a contact point for all players in base. With so many players out in the field solving missions - the Bat CO's will have their hands full with infield tasks. Especially if they lead their people from the front like this year. The rear echelon duties tend to be forgotten then.

With some rotating BE crew and a minimum staff at each game faction main base HQ this should be fully possible. This year too few volunteered for Poldavian HQ duty. Unfortunately, or should we say - "luckily enough" there was little radio traffic to handle due to failing longrange COM this year, again.

There's no way I'm gonna operate that HQ radio alone in the future like this year. I was helped through the worst by a back-injured Irish player, injured dutchman NL-Lexxie, injured Norwegians Tok and Flygel - which was nice and necessary. Thanks to you all.

We were able to do it with 2 radio-operators last year at B8, but as said the surrounding in-base staff from PsyOps and 1st inf. Bat were always around to help us with putting up info boards and relaying and dealing with the info-flow we dealt with around the HQ-map, radios and cell-phones ingame.

Edit: As Tiger_1 correctly point out the relative small number of BE-staff are already dealing with a massive logistic nightmare and coordination job. WE as players need to step up and volunteer for HQ duty. There's IMHO no way around the fact that a 3-batallion game faction needs tighter coordination and a better Brigade-level HQ in the future.

That means there must be some higher-level officers with the power to take decisons and issue new missions orders and provide in-base player info around the HQ-map/radios. Radio-operators without the proper authority or resources like an inbase QRF and base-defense rotation scheme will only get this HQ-concept at a minimum function level.
Very good!!!
Let´s do it next year. The CO´s should be recruit - via help of BE - volunteers for this very important jobs early in preparation of Berget 10.
B09: Poldavian 1st Mechanized Battalion
B10: Poldavian 21st Mechanized Battalion
B11: Blood Ravens
B14: Blue Armband

User avatar
Redmenace_tv
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 210
Joined: 03 Aug 2009, 03:23

Post by Redmenace_tv » 15 Jul 2011, 13:36

I've been to 2 berget events now and have only played as hq staff. This gives me a chance of a completely different airsoft experience, and a chance to help the game work and help players enjoy their berget experience more.
(TOM)
Berget 8 - NAF 5th Staff Officer
Berget 9 - 2IC NAF 1st Mech battalion
Berget 10 -2IC NAF 23rd Inf Battalion
Berget 11 -AWOL
Berget 12 - AWOL
Berget 13 - ?

User avatar
Blackwolf
Berget Trustee
Berget Trustee
Posts: 287
Joined: 04 Jan 2008, 02:51
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Post by Blackwolf » 15 Jul 2011, 14:20

Hello

+ 1 For Tiger_1

Tottaly agree with you.

Regards

Blackwolf
BLACKWOLF
BERGET 5 NATO SQUAD LEADER
BERGET 6 NATO PLATOON LEADER
BERGET 7 NATO COMPANY COMMANDER
BERGET 8 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
BERGET 9 NAF BATTALION COMMANDER
BERGET 10 NAF ALL THE WAY
MEMBER HOSTILE OPERATIONS TEAM
PORTUGAL

User avatar
Brujo
Berget Master Trustee
Berget Master Trustee
Posts: 645
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 11:42
Location: Slovenia
Contact:

Post by Brujo » 15 Jul 2011, 17:31

1-What I would really love to see in rules is that dead (not healed) people completely forget about their previous life. Especially positions and numbers of their enemy. It's not really THAT important for a BatCO to know the exact location of enemy HQ tent. Rape a base with full force and you will find it.

2-I would also like to see one of early suggestions for the wounded to be pulled out to safety without the use of one leg. Will be testing that idea at home in the future.

3-HQ with enough staff...
Free tickets for staff means they will not show up. No money to lose, easier to cancel! Had this at B6. People will promise in November everything to get a free ticket then in June they will realize Berget does cost more than just one ticket... one needs to make HQ their gaming experience. I personally find it far more interesting and fulfilling to coordinate masses than dealing with individuals.

Thanks for all the suggestions until now, I love reading those instead of the "well infested into every topic" cheating accusations.
B5 - Soviet VDV Battalion Commander
B6 - NATO Battalion Commander
B7 - Orlov's Plt CO
B8 - Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers
B10 - Poldavian 15th Sappers Commander
Airsoft Klub Salamander - Slovenia

User avatar
Brujo
Berget Master Trustee
Berget Master Trustee
Posts: 645
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 11:42
Location: Slovenia
Contact:

Post by Brujo » 15 Jul 2011, 17:45

1-What I would really love to see in rules is that dead (not healed) people completely forget about their previous life. Especially positions and numbers of their enemy. It's not really THAT important for a BatCO to know the exact location of enemy HQ tent. Rape a base with full force and you will find it.

2-I would also like to see one of early suggestions for the wounded to be pulled out to safety without the use of one leg. Will be testing that idea at home in the future.

3-HQ with enough staff...
Free tickets for staff means they will not show up. No money to lose, easier to cancel! Had this at B6. People will promise in November everything to get a free ticket then in June they will realize Berget does cost more than just one ticket... one needs to make HQ their gaming experience. I personally find it far more interesting and fulfilling to coordinate masses than dealing with individuals.

Thanks for all the suggestions until now, I love reading those instead of the "well infested into every topic" cheating accusations.
B5 - Soviet VDV Battalion Commander
B6 - NATO Battalion Commander
B7 - Orlov's Plt CO
B8 - Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers
B10 - Poldavian 15th Sappers Commander
Airsoft Klub Salamander - Slovenia

User avatar
Robin-Hood
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 145
Joined: 28 Mar 2010, 18:17

Post by Robin-Hood » 15 Jul 2011, 18:31

Brujo wrote: 2-I would also like to see one of early suggestions for the wounded to be pulled out to safety without the use of one leg. Will be testing that idea at home in the future.
I think that is a recipe for disaster. Making people hop around on rough terrain possibly in low light. Bad idea.

If you just say you can only walk when being dragged that would work fine.

User avatar
motorhead
Captain
Captain
Posts: 351
Joined: 22 Mar 2008, 15:25
Location: Hönefoss, Norway

Post by motorhead » 15 Jul 2011, 20:52

Freebies not realizing the true costs of attending this game don't have the motivation needed anyway to attend. Main thing is they need to be focused, motivated for HQ duty and make the best out of it.

What we as players need is to see the bigger picture and volunteer for HQ duties - if not for anything else, then at least to see that my/your buddies get the best possible big game for 4 days. All we need is to see in the mirror and say we're willing to do that role. Then perform.

An airsoft event his size needs we step up from the weekend skirmish mindset and picture ourselves in an ingame and offgame service role.
Doing HQ duty as radio operator/map plotter/info board updater actually helps MORE players having a good day and a better chance to get less bored. ( If long-range COM works etc. :-) )

If there are uncovered recon duties, special missions (put an OP on THAT objective area and report back to us what you see etc.), enough people having respawned inbase or just keen players having rested and feeling capable and motivated:

The HQ will in most cases (not always) be capable of detailing new tasks or missions. This will of course have to be coordinated with the unit leaders, but at least players will se an ongoing process and not faff about in the base after respawn/recouperation while waiting for hours for their main units RTB.

Even escorting or reinforcing their own units back to base after missions can be good for morale. Etc.

My point is that this game actually need HQ players in all factions above batallion size. How this is organized is a shared responsibility between Berget-Events and the game trustees/CO's. To ease our CO's responsibilities and make their jobs easier we need more players seeing this important game aspect.

I say, let's have more HQ volunteers next year. It'll increase the game qualities and give more people the possibilities for both creative LARP and more intelligent use of their BB's.
Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
B10: On leave
B11: Hot Dog

Alberto
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 14:03
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Contact:

Post by Alberto » 15 Jul 2011, 21:25

motorhead wrote:F
I say, let's have more HQ volunteers next year. It'll increase the game qualities and give more people the possibilities for both creative LARP and more intelligent use of their BB's.
Sorry Motorhead, by so far your statement sounds to me more like a slogan than a suggestion for improvement. I agree, that it would be nice to have experienced players in HQ, but I don't see "how" in your post. People like you, who enjoy HQ responsibility are very small minority, at least according to this year results.

Therefore Berget Crew has to either find a motivation factor to attract experienced volunteers (I stress experienced as we don't want any player to be in HQ), or hire people for this role.

Unfortunately I don't know how to solve this important moment then except for putting Berget crew people.
www.usmc.lt
Berget 6 - Gen. Conrad's Mercenaries
Berget 9 - Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers, 2nd coy, 6pl. 2nd sq.

Post Reply