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Feedback and debriefings from Berget 10
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wormbyte
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Post by wormbyte » 04 Jul 2012, 17:28

Give them time guys. I am absolutely positive Berget will provide an official post game response to their events.

But like all big events, there is a tremendous amount of activities that take place immediately after the event that requires time and effort from the organisers.

They also need time to collect their thoughts. I also expect they want to allow several days of feedback to accumulate (be that good or bad), all of which needs to be reviewed before they are in a position to over a end of game report, or indeed answers to your questions.

So be patient guys and allow them time to gather up their thoughts before they respond. Like us they are just humans after all.

And on a side note, I realise that reading through the posts, some of you are feeling a little raw at the moment. Just remember that no one is trying to rip anyone off. Please don't be naive to think that Berget would think that way. They are running a business and I am sure they have long term goals. Ripping off loyal veterans because they believe they can get new customers next year is not a viable business model, and Berget would not be thinking that way.

As I said to spof, Berget have the balls to try and organise the biggest Airsoft game in the world. There are not many people with balls THAT big. And as a major UK Airsoft organiser myself, I can tell you that's a fooking big pair of balls.

I won't deny that B10 had issues and I will personally send my observations to the crew in a positive constructive manner for which they can take value from and find useful.

But they deserve credit for trying to do what they do. And we have a responsibility within the international Airsoft community to help them understand what issues certain customers had, so that they can learn from this experience and go from strength to strength in the games and years ahead.

I for one do not want them to stop running these games. So if they continue, then they need to understand what issues you have. But doing so in a negative manner is really not going to help anyone.

So provide solutions not problems guys and give them a chance to reply :)
Last edited by wormbyte on 04 Jul 2012, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WhiteAce » 04 Jul 2012, 17:49

As I know from previous years, this time is also the crew's holiday time from their work IRL. They usually take one week after the game as a time for themselves, then get back together and have a meeting. Only after that they will make official statements.
I'm quite sure all voices will be addressed.
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Post by Berget-events » 04 Jul 2012, 17:57

The cleaning up phase and storage of all material will end today. We will then be on weekend off with our families. You can expect us looking through all feedback during next week.

We will then evaluate things from all aspects and facts, point out the good things and the bad things. What went wrong and what went good.

We will have debriefings with as many BAT cmd´s as possible starting next week and look into their point of view.

Best regards.

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Post by TerrenceAnth » 04 Jul 2012, 19:14

Ill keep this short and sweet on my part. I made some amazing friends from all over the world. Charged into battle along side them. And lost my voice while screaming stand to orders.
This was my first Berget and i can safely say for myself and most of my other fox 2.3 recon that we will be back next yeah fighting fitter and not carrying as much gear :D

Tom (Redmenace_tv) Was amazing through the whole think we kept us all up to date with what was going on and on the first night he lead a glorious retreat that landed us smack bang in the middle of a swamp!
Id follow Tom into Mordor as long as he was leading the way! 8)
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Post by Scarface » 04 Jul 2012, 19:41

Tom (Redmenace_tv) Was amazing through the whole think we kept us all up to date with what was going on and on the first night he lead a glorious retreat that landed us smack bang in the middle of a swamp!
Id follow Tom into Mordor as long as he was leading the way!

I think you are wrong, the retreat was lead by FOX 4, Redmenace_tv and Hornet was put in the middle of last 16 players left from FOX 4 and FOX 2 to be guarded from the POL's, if I am correct only 2 players left from FOX 2. I was there, has a leader of Alfa unit together with my guys. The idea to move true the swamp was mine, I know that area very well.

Whith all my respect Tom is very good commander. But, I like the facts.
Berget - 6 NATO FOX 4
Berget - 7 NATO FOX 4
Berget - 8 23th NAF FOX 4
Berget - 9 6th NAF FOX 4
Berget - 10 23th NAF FOX4
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Berget - 14 NAF Infantry
Berget - 15 Mercenaries

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Post by Geboren » 04 Jul 2012, 19:59

I was POL 3d Mountaineers, 3d Coy, 1st Platoon Leader, with my guys, from ODA 541.

First of all, thanks to:

-My guys, you rules. It was a reborn to game with you again and we leave BE10 stronger than before, as always.

-Obi-san, my Coy Commander. He always tried his best, even when he received strange or contradiction orders. He also provided us informations and INTEL, and this is the most important in a MILSIM game. You want to know what your actions on the field will give to your HQ. It was a real pleasure to play with you and share our experiences and knowledge. I hope to see you again at this kind of game. The thanks goes also to your XO by the way!

-Swedish guys from Varg Paket, the 2nd Squad of 1st Platoon. My guys enjoyed to play with you and I hope you did as well. They appreciated the Sand pit bunker phase and reported me.

-Tiger, because you seem to have made what you could, with what BE crew gave you (I mean missions, logistic, etc). You made a good officer's briefing and I appreciate the manner you manage.

-Thanks to any POL, NAF or ZAN who was friendly on the battlefield. Because our game is about pleasure and fair-play. My guys reported me nice things, with very good behaviours. But I guess when you're nice, people are nice with you.

-Thanks to Blackwolf to be still here. Even if we where not on the same side, I can't wait to play again under your orders, like in B7. "Hold the line", I'll never forget.

-Thanks to the italian guys in 2nd Platoon, you gave me the opportunity to practice my italian, but also my english haha.

-Thanks to the italian guy (Matt?) who recognized me at crossroads, for rennactment purpose. Hope to see you again.

WELL...

No we start for the debrief.

LOGISTIC:

-As always, the checkin was perfect. Nicely done and pretty secure, professional I could say. The safe zone was nice, with good looking shops.

-The meals... Well, I saw the meals in BE07, my guys saw them in BE08. So they told me: "take meal". Well, very disappointed. BUT, the girls in Kiosk where very nice and Burgers where so good, I'll not continue longer about meals. Thanks to everyone in kiosk.

-The game. Well, we where supposed to be mountaineers, so operate in mountain, behind enemy lines. But the Bat com gave us more "classic infantry" job than real job. Fortunately, sometimes, we pushed further and made great actions behind enemies lines and took points with only 1 platoon ^^. We've also suffered of slooooow decisions to "push forward" from Bat or HQ... Sometimes we where waiting for orders in Windtsation, for going in the village, but the village was already ours... Well, little points in the chain of command that where not really great.

-I'm very proud to have captured personnaly the scientist. Why do I say that? Because at the start, the mission should have been:

-"Okay guys from ODA, you are many from Law Enforcement, so you will be the team that goes inside, only pistols alllowed, no shooting at civilians and no shooting at the scientist. Secure him, capture and extract."

At the end: you have 4734783874374 russians that fire 74734783478347 bb's in full auto, they injured the scientist and didn't even care about him or even saw him! I had to bring a medic to heal him before restrains and extract. Excuse me for the sad/political image, but this mission remind me more "Beslan" than it should have been.

We where 110 against 9 guys. Only 1 platoon with a squad that secure the perimeter and a squad that goes in would have been enough, more realistic and fun. Well, it was more to make pleasure to "CoD-Beslan-OMGDevgruairsoft" players than real MILSIM players.

But the idea was nice.

-I've also noticed that players or whole squads complain about walking a lot and going to same points as last night. Well... this is Berget, read the informations and also the feedbacks, but don't come to a game you are not prepared for. Seriously.

Before finishing, I've a question: I saw guys from ZAN with quads, in game, taking the North road to take position on the right side of our Base. This rocks and your quads rocks. BUT, do they carry BAV's? Or if they don't, could be shoot you or your machine to stop you? For me, in case of doubt, I don't shoot, because of safety reasons, but can you give me an answer for next time ? Thanks.

For my conclusion, I want to remind that organizing a game is not that easy. I know it well, because I organize events with 70-100 people in Switzerland, so I hardly imagine the job for thousands...

BE Crew, take rest, learn from your mistakes, appreciate also the good feedbacks and make us a great event next year. This is no negociable ;)

Best regards, Geb.
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B8 NATO Foxtrott
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Post by TerrenceAnth » 04 Jul 2012, 20:01

Scarface wrote:
Tom (Redmenace_tv) Was amazing through the whole think we kept us all up to date with what was going on and on the first night he lead a glorious retreat that landed us smack bang in the middle of a swamp!
Id follow Tom into Mordor as long as he was leading the way!

I think you are wrong, the retreat was lead by FOX 4, Redmenace_tv and Hornet was put in the middle of last 16 players left from FOX 4 and FOX 2 to be guarded from the POL's, if I am correct only 2 players left from FOX 2. I was there, has a leader of Alfa unit together with my guys. The idea to move true the swamp was mine, I know that area very well.

Whith all my respect Tom is very good commander. But, I like the facts.
Yeah i was the fox 2 medic the tall cunt :P The part with us legging it down the hill and into the swamp is still kinda fuzzy. All i remember is Tom calling fox 2 to fall back going down that hill being told i was the last medic and to stick to the front then one of the fox 4 lads took us thought the swamp, Whoever took the lead through it i must say he made good work to make it though with minor wet feet!
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B12: Sledgehammer Company Commander
B:13 GCT Special Parachute Infantry PL
B14 NAF Infantry PL
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Post by jdoe » 04 Jul 2012, 20:56

Geboren wrote: Before finishing, I've a question: I saw guys from ZAN with quads, in game, taking the North road to take position on the right side of our Base. This rocks and your quads rocks. BUT, do they carry BAV's? Or if they don't, could be shoot you or your machine to stop you? For me, in case of doubt, I don't shoot, because of safety reasons, but can you give me an answer for next time ? Thanks.
Unofficial answer; crew of an ATV can be shot with regular weapons, no BAVS needed. But I think they had BAVS anyway, I might be wrong but have to check!
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Post by grasulas » 04 Jul 2012, 21:08

Please forgive my spelling and broken English:

Pros:

-less cheating from players
-more Game Masters in the field over watching the big fights, big congrats for that
-bigger area for the entire game, too bad we don’t use it all, next year if is possible it will be better if we can play in another area.
-RADIO COMS work on all game time BIG CONGRATS on this aspect :)


Cons:

-my friend is using a 90m/s sopmod and the crono crew give him a green card with a 10m MED, and when we ask the GM at the crono if is correct the guy tell me that all AEGs will have 10m/s MED for safety reasons, OK with me but inform me before i get in the game area pls ...

-big game area but we put all the battalions in 1 place, at the NAF side is more retarded putting NAF and Zansians in the same area .... I know is more easy for BC but we will appreciate a more dynamic and strategic approach of the game, not all are coming to Berget for a simple spray and pray game ....

-I understand is a huge problem and logistic nightmare to prepare the bases with electricity, water, toilets and to put up so many tents in such a short time, but if is not possible to do it right, drop the price on the ticket and let players organize them self’s and ffs pretty please stop using the old Swedish army tents, even after we manage to re-anchor them in proper fashion, the heavy rain from Friday make them useless ....

-where are all the mechanize units from the BC, the tank the shilka ... 3 large transport trucks is all u guys can bring at a game that suppose to be the best Berget, the anniversary of 10 years of Berget events ...

-I`m OK with a game in less numbers if this means more ppl decicated to a milsim game not paying the ticket and then bailing when they see the weather will be bad.

-I WANT THE LARP ELEMENT BACK, where are the civilians, all the fun I had with their larp and constant surprises u can expect from them ...

-I saw one GM looking at ppl who don’t respect the rules without taking any action until more of us ask him if is OK for a medic to heal some one "remotely", only then he said the medic in question is not acting in game spirit and did go and talk to the guy. We need GM who have the balls to send ppl at respawn or in base when they are not respecting the rules not just posing in the field for ppl to see is a GM there....

-I want a more complex story line, with mixt missions that not involve necessary 100 ppl or huge amounts of BBs ...

Please Berget, understand I’m not saying this as a frustration, I’m you’re biggest fan and I’m sure you guys can make rock ass events if you really focus on it, we want Quality not Quantity :).....
Last edited by grasulas on 05 Jul 2012, 01:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HORNET » 04 Jul 2012, 21:50

wormbyte wrote:
And on a side note, I realise that reading through the posts, some of you are feeling a little raw at the moment. Just remember that no one is trying to rip anyone off. Please don't be naive to think that Berget would think that way. They are running a business and I am sure they have long term goals. Ripping off loyal veterans because they believe they can get new customers next year is not a viable business model, and Berget would not be thinking that way.

As I said to spof, Berget have the balls to try and organise the biggest Airsoft game in the world. There are not many people with balls THAT big. And as a major UK Airsoft organiser myself, I can tell you that's a fooking big pair of balls.
wormbyte wrote: So provide solutions not problems guys and give them a chance to reply :)
Ian, BE is making these games for 10 years now, and I and my men, we believe that they must have learned by now how that is done. If they have not, I do not see why they have to do it on our backs.

Also this years game had the most simple scenario and in game inventory .compared to the previous four games. Apart from the few new tents, all the rest was the old stuff and even a lot of the old stuff this year was missing.

And if we are paying ticket for that game it makes it a commercial game. And in that case BE got what they wanted from us, but they did not provided what hey were selling, so we did not get what we have payed for. And that is why me and my men we feel ripped off. By the way there are people that are mad at me because I had convinced them to come to this berget

About the balls you say. That is their business, and they get payed for it. If they cant do it, better not doing it at all. There are other as big games in Europe already. Just something to think about.

I hope you now understand my point.
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Post by Rythm » 04 Jul 2012, 23:30

jdoe wrote:
Geboren wrote: Before finishing, I've a question: I saw guys from ZAN with quads, in game, taking the North road to take position on the right side of our Base. This rocks and your quads rocks. BUT, do they carry BAV's? Or if they don't, could be shoot you or your machine to stop you? For me, in case of doubt, I don't shoot, because of safety reasons, but can you give me an answer for next time ? Thanks.
Unofficial answer; crew of an ATV can be shot with regular weapons, no BAVS needed. But I think they had BAVS anyway, I might be wrong but have to check!
No, we did not have BAVS on them, but they could be killed with a single BB.
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Post by wormbyte » 04 Jul 2012, 23:51

I have sent a pm to you mate :)
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B7 - Company Commander (India Coy) - NATO
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Post by Eadcruzher » 05 Jul 2012, 00:07

Ian, thanks for all the shouting during the thursday evening. That was the closest I got to MilSim/LARP during this game.

The rest was just a bloody speedball-game with Poldavians and NAF not taking their hits.
I can't comment on the Zansian, because I never saw them fire at anything. Same goes for civilians.

First and last Berget. Never again.

Edit:
Some things that annoyed me quite badly during the game.
NAF having OD colors and Poldavians wearing desert-colored boonies/caps aswell as the new Foliage Green.

I don't see a problem if only Zansian and Poldavians had OD, but with NAF aswell, it turned into quite a hassle. You were never sure if you spotted a friendly guy or a enemy.

Keep it simple. If you have these "Black vs Light" don't start mixing it up.

Then we got the poldavians with the desert boonies/caps.
Same goes for the Foliage Green. In these woods it looked more like some kind of desert uniform than OD.

Why was this allowed?

To be fair, I had fun during this event.
But that was not when I was outside the base.

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Post by SpA » 05 Jul 2012, 19:11

Waldo wrote:Now then not so good stuff:
- The "Guard the Silo" mission on friday night. Sappers got orders to guard it for 6 hours. It was dark, cold, stormy and wet. At first that was no problem. we prepared for heavy fightings. We dug in and created fortyfied positions. After f4 hours i started to feel not so well (I got 3 layers of cold weather gear, and all were wet) so I returned to base with some other lads. One hour later the rest of our squad came and I asked why they didn't stayed till replacements should arrive at 3am. The reply blew my mind: NAF called out a cease fire for the night....our whole mission was pointless.
Maybe the NAF quit that night but we Zansians were there searching for you!

We headed North of Solumssjön before midnight. I can't remember the exact sectors, but we searched for a silo for an hour or two.

Apparently our intelligence was wrong, so we reguested a pick up, which was refused because of enemy activity on the road. So we walked back to our camp during the storm. We used the road as we were already soked and bored and only encountered one NAF vehicle in search of silos too.

At the base we found that the driver of our car was sitting on the front seat waiting for our call. At the tent I found my sleeping bag wet :D

I quess I hoped that we would encounter you guys as you hoped to engage us :D




About the rest of the game:


I found this Berget less interesting than the last one. I have served two games on the Zansian side. Maybe it's time to change the whole storyline for the next game? No more Poldavia and NAF if it's getting old.

Our squad was mainly walking around the area from point A to point B and then engaging the stationary enemy, or worse, supporting the engaging units. Maybe it was just bad luck that we missed the better missions, like raids and sabotage, but it felt a bit empty to walk somewhere just to attack big Poldavian units with too little men. This year Zansians were used like regular infantry, but we still lacked the vehicles and the artillery.

The last day was great exception on this. We were set to stop a car carrying a missile and the enemy was the toughest I encountered. It was also refreshing to be on the defencive side.

Swedish army tents
were ok, but I wish we could have had stoves too. We planned to stay for beer party, but all our gear was wet and it was near impossible to get them dry without stove, so we drove to Sundsvall.

That "airsoft parade" to NAF base was found highly unmotivating. Some people stayed in the tents protesting the embarassing mission.


I quess I would have been happier on the NAF scout/snipers, just laying on the ground counting the passing vehicles. I will be more careful when selecting my unit if I'm attending to another Berget.

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Post by Waldo » 06 Jul 2012, 16:59

SpA wrote:
That "airsoft parade" to NAF base was found highly unmotivating. Some people stayed in the tents protesting the embarassing mission.
.

Did i miss something??? :?
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