Gameplay & Cheating?

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 11
User avatar
Rythm
Captain
Captain
Posts: 310
Joined: 03 Jul 2011, 21:17
Location: Sweden & Germany

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Rythm » 02 Jul 2013, 21:41

I did not see any cheating on purpose. My biggest problem was a squad of germans who participated in the battalions actions for about 15 in-game minutes during the game. I have no idea what they did, and when i shared with them what we were about to do, they were critical about not being briefed enough by battalion! This is the same squad that were "lost" for six hours the first night, and we had some 30+ people looking for it in the rain. Just sad that they came all this way not to take part of the game the way it was intended to. Their loss.
6mm.se

B9: UN - Platoon commander
B10: Zansian Black Guards - Platoon commander
B11: Ravens - Company commander/Intel officer
B12: Ravens - 2 in Command
B13: Ikaros - 2iC
B15: Mercs - 2iC
B17: GFM - 2iC

User avatar
stone[no]
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 88
Joined: 14 Nov 2007, 21:44
Location: Norway

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by stone[no] » 03 Jul 2013, 09:19

JudgementDay wrote:Well, rules on the minefield need a little clearing up (this has been noted in-game already):

The minefield works like this:
- If a GM sees you walking in the minefield, he will tell you that you are dead. In-game, you just stepped on a landmine at that moment.
- If there is no GM to see you, the in-game explanation is that you were lucky and side-stepped all mines in your path. It is theoretically possible to come through a real-life minefield without stepping on a single mine (trying is not recommended).

So it was not cheating if you went through the minefield and didn't get 'caught' by a 'mine' (=GM), it was an intended game mechanic. During the first hour fights, there was a large number of GMs present around the minefield, and a large number of players died in the minefield. After a while however, BE decided that so many mines had been stepped on that the minefield was growing thinner, and passing through became more possible, so they gradually withdrew their GMs.

Still, many players considered this version of "it's allowed if no one sees it" some sort of cheating still, and chose not to walk near the field.
...
Unfortunately these rules weren't made clear enough to everyone before gamestart (commanders were only informed on-site how the field would work), so this may need some work.
This interpretation did not come down the Raven chain of command and I believe my commanders were not told about it.
B6: NATO Sqd ldr
B7: NATO Plt co
B8: XO Pol 3.
B9: XO Pol 3.
B10: Chief of staff Pol C&C
B11: Talon3 co, Blood Ravens
B12: Yuri Orlov mech, Panther 3
B13: Ikaros Mech
B14: NAF mech
B15: NAF mech
B16: NAF mech
B17: TFC mech

kjsaw
Berget Master Trustee
Berget Master Trustee
Posts: 1019
Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 21:21

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by kjsaw » 03 Jul 2013, 09:28

stone[no] wrote:
JudgementDay wrote:Well, rules on the minefield need a little clearing up (this has been noted in-game already):

The minefield works like this:
- If a GM sees you walking in the minefield, he will tell you that you are dead. In-game, you just stepped on a landmine at that moment.
- If there is no GM to see you, the in-game explanation is that you were lucky and side-stepped all mines in your path. It is theoretically possible to come through a real-life minefield without stepping on a single mine (trying is not recommended).

So it was not cheating if you went through the minefield and didn't get 'caught' by a 'mine' (=GM), it was an intended game mechanic. During the first hour fights, there was a large number of GMs present around the minefield, and a large number of players died in the minefield. After a while however, BE decided that so many mines had been stepped on that the minefield was growing thinner, and passing through became more possible, so they gradually withdrew their GMs.

Still, many players considered this version of "it's allowed if no one sees it" some sort of cheating still, and chose not to walk near the field.
...
Unfortunately these rules weren't made clear enough to everyone before gamestart (commanders were only informed on-site how the field would work), so this may need some work.
This interpretation did not come down the Raven chain of command and I believe my commanders were not told about it.
Correct; We did not receive any information suggesting that it was only a minefield if a GM was present. We did hear "rumors" that the minefield was "gone" on Friday/Saturday, but I can't recall if I got a definitive answer on that from our GM.
B4 >>> B16
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

User avatar
Weekendworker
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 36
Joined: 17 Jun 2009, 17:39

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Weekendworker » 03 Jul 2013, 11:16

I have to agree.
This was nothing I was informed about.

On sat we where allowed to clear a path using engineers and markings. Nothing allowed Before that.
/W
B7 Yuri Orlovs Mercenaries XO 1Coy
B8 Sixth Mercs XO
B9 United Nations Peace Enforcement Taskforce 1 Coy XO
B10 Flue
B11 Bat Com Raven Guerilla
B12 Bat Com Lerando Republican Guard
B13 Birth of my daughter
B14 Awol

User avatar
diamid
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 234
Joined: 29 Nov 2008, 19:40
Location: Norway, Stavanger
Contact:

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by diamid » 03 Jul 2013, 13:00

I think this was one of the better games I have participated in.

Did not hear much about cheating or bad play.

The few issues I can recall:

1. There was some complaints about snipers shooting at short range and aiming for the head (Both sides) during the night. I experienced this personly, and was a bit irritated when I returned to camp. But after letting of some steam in HQ and got a moment to think about it, I did not mind. It can be hard to evaluate the distance when its dark, and I do not hold any grudges against anyone.

2. Drinking Alkohol during the game. It was reported to me that someone was drinking and offering beer to others during friday night. The incident was reported to the GMs. I do not apporve of this, and its something that should not happen. I trust the GM took the correct actions.

3. The thing that irriteted me the most, was when GCT troops was spotted using Off-game roads to enter the game area. I do not blame the GCT troops, since it was allowed by the GM. But I think its a bad decition, it trows the game a bit off balance.

In my opinion, if the GM finds its nessasery to take action too for example get the senario going, they should be able to talk to the Commanders directly and find a solution that solves the problem.

If it was an in-game real option, that GCT was allowed a secound access point, Raven HQ should have been informed that it could happen. For example "there is intel that GCT is talking to another naboring nation, to get road access to the game area"
Last edited by diamid on 03 Jul 2013, 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
diamid
Proud member of 6MM
Email: diamid@6mm.se

B7: SF Sqd Leader - Yuri Orlovs Mercs
B8: CoyLeader - Sixth Mercs
B11: Batalion XO - Raven Guerillia
B13: Commander - IKAROS Minerva Infantry

Yams
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 8
Joined: 31 May 2011, 21:18

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Yams » 03 Jul 2013, 13:04

Hit taking seemed very good to me, theres always going to be some on boths sides so it's never worth getting too stressed over.
If you get too worked up you end up spoiling your own game as i presumed happened to one group of particularly "butthurt" guys who got caught in ambush and were firing dry in many cases, which of course led them to think my guys weren't taking hits.

The minefield though did seem to be one of the biggest problems. I heard something similar to what JudgementDay put, but thought that was such a retarded idea it had to be made up. As a game mechanic its one of the worst I have heard.
My impression seemed to be that Blue seemed to rigidly adhere to the idea that it was a minefield, occaisionally were would be told that bits near crossings were cleared (indeed dead reds told us that the area near the north crossing was cleared during one assault). Overall however blue seemed to keep out.

Reds seemed to cross in far larger numbers. Some guys got upset but I was doing all I could to calm things down as you don't know what Berget has told the commanders, commaders told the troops and what the troops care about.

User avatar
diamid
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 234
Joined: 29 Nov 2008, 19:40
Location: Norway, Stavanger
Contact:

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by diamid » 03 Jul 2013, 13:08

Reagarding the mine filed. Ravens had a mission to talk to a civi that knew a safe route true the minefield. It was one of our main tasks to manage to smuggel drugs and weapons.

I am also sure, there was a map that we in the end manage to secure. Plus, we had a mine detector for the engineer for the last missions.
diamid
Proud member of 6MM
Email: diamid@6mm.se

B7: SF Sqd Leader - Yuri Orlovs Mercs
B8: CoyLeader - Sixth Mercs
B11: Batalion XO - Raven Guerillia
B13: Commander - IKAROS Minerva Infantry

HiTeck7
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Nov 2007, 09:52

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by HiTeck7 » 03 Jul 2013, 13:34

hi,

we were playing on GCT side. during the entire game i didn't see one single person who didn't accept a hit. also my men did not complain about it.
i already attend big games but it has never been this fair like on berget 11.

so, great thanks to all gamers on ravens side for that experience.


the only thing we get really pissed of, was a german GCT vehicle. it was the biggest truck at GCT. the one with the MG on the front passanger seat and the turnable tower on top (also with MG). they killed me and two of my squad members, while we were trying to defeat the base attack on GCT base.
i was standing without cover and waving my arms, so that they could see, that i'm in the same team. but they didn't care about that and just shoot at us with 3 death guys as a result.
later i heard from another guy from GCT, that he was already killed 3 times by this vehicle!
so WTF!?? those guys should better watch their fire.
of yourse friendly fire could happen, but 3 times at the same person? i don't wanna know, how many GCT gamers they killed in total....

User avatar
JudgementDay
Major
Major
Posts: 502
Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 19:25
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by JudgementDay » 03 Jul 2013, 14:26

I will talk to that team personally.
I must say however that I have heard wrong reports about friendly fire coming from that vehicle as well.
Been here since B08... :)

M.Svensson
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 98
Joined: 11 Apr 2012, 20:52
Location: Borlänge, Sweden

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by M.Svensson » 03 Jul 2013, 14:55

We were a couple on GCT that experienced that some raven players didn't take hits but as many have said, it's balways some people that doesn't take hits and I'm pretty sure there was some of those on GCT aswell.

Overall it was a lot more fairplay than I thought it would have been and I'm happy with the game because it was very much fun! :D
Berget 11 - GCT SFODU, GOLF
Berget 12 - GCT 9th SF infantry, ECHO
Berget 13 - GCT Special Parachute Infantry, ALPHA

HiTeck7
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Nov 2007, 09:52

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by HiTeck7 » 03 Jul 2013, 14:58

JudgementDay wrote: I must say however that I have heard wrong reports about friendly fire coming from that vehicle as well.
hm....how do you mean that?
they got also friendly fire?
or they report of friendly fire and it wasn't friendly fire?

however: GCT players who shoot at this vehicle must be saboteurs. because nobody can say that he didn't see that vehicle in our base. this thing was huge ;-)

User avatar
Harry
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 41
Joined: 02 May 2013, 20:01
Contact:

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Harry » 03 Jul 2013, 17:19

About the minefield:

I told to all of our men (SIDU), that the minefield is active and nobody should get through. At friday I ordered Alfa and Bravo to make some paths through the minefield (we had 6 paths) and sunday morning to "put the mines back"...

About the Unimog:

I was standing next to the vehicle at the Iron Walls during the attack, when the gunner opened fire blue on blue. SFODU commanders were nearby and we started to yell "watch for friendly fire!"... The gunner was incredible :shock:
B11 - GCT SIDU commander
B12 - PMC Unisec Crowbar CO

www.airsoftwars.cz

User avatar
alecu
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 152
Joined: 31 Oct 2008, 19:52
Location: Romania
Contact:

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by alecu » 03 Jul 2013, 17:28

When Iron Walls where attacked the big Blue Truck parked infront of it, started fire after got some fire on it from incoming blue from the Main Road.

I tryed to tell people that they would kill their brothers and sisters, and that is an unforgiven sin in the eyes of great Allah, but who listen to the Arabs? they are only searched for bombs and asked about drugs!

May Allah have mercy on the soul that got taken that night !!!
B7 - NATO
B8 - NAF 23
B9 - NAF 6th Airborne
B10 - NAF 23rd Infantry Battalion
B11 - Taliban Tea Shop Owner
B12 - Taliban Inc.
--------------------
http://www.progear.ro

User avatar
Naitzo
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 122
Joined: 13 Mar 2012, 17:34
Location: Toten, Norway

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Naitzo » 03 Jul 2013, 19:03

I feel that our BAVS hit reciever got a whole lot of attention this year.

1. Hit reciever hits branches and looses top, goes offgame and gets it fixed at safezone.
2. B.E crew shows up and checks it. big woop it's still at 15%.
3. Different day, GCT guy checks it, it's at 15% , even takes a shot at it to check that it works.

You know, it's good to check sometimes. Because 50% of the time, you simply suck at shooting RPG's at enemy vehicles.
Effective distance etc etc...
Best regards, Naitzo.
GOA Norway.
B9- Poldavian 1st Mechanized. Driver
B10- Poldavian 21st Mechanized. Driver
B11- Ravens Guerilla, Mechanized "Panzer Comp", Squad 2. Driver
B12- Engine failure, did not attend.
B13- lol
[LB4LG]

User avatar
JudgementDay
Major
Major
Posts: 502
Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 19:25
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by JudgementDay » 03 Jul 2013, 20:04

HiTeck7 wrote:hm....how do you mean that?
they got also friendly fire?
or they report of friendly fire and it wasn't friendly fire?
What I meant was that the vehicle was backing up allied forces on the southern checkpoint to civilian camp, and we got reports that they were shooting blue on blue. The players reporting had not taken any hits from the vehicle though, but from various enemies sitting all around them in the bushes.

I admit that MGs may spray, and that those things can go through bushes and hit allied players behind or next to enemies (as possible with any support weapon), but it also seems to me that due to the MG being audible all around (it was pretty loud), there has been a number of players that reported friendly fire in mistake, because they got a hit from the direction where they heard the gun fire. On top, the truck is a favourite target for enemy fire, and lots of those BBs directed at the truck and not hitting may still pass it and hit players on the other side of it.

Considering the ROF of the MG, I would say unless you have been hit by a continuous stream of BBs within short time, there is a good chance that this was off-fire or maybe even someone shooting at you on purpose (like a Raven).
Been here since B08... :)

Post Reply