BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 12
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B2fox
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BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by B2fox » 30 Jun 2014, 10:45

This year I saw two major problems with the BAVS system.

I heard a lot of accusations saying “They must have disconnected their BAVS receiver” when people did not scor hits with their 40 mm grenades.
I also had problems, and only had success, on ranges of 10-15m.

I have two suggestions.

1. Four “Alive” LED’s in green or blue, that shows the BAVS receiver is on. This will eliminate the accusations of disconnection. )And yes, this may give away a camouflaged viechle, but since they are mostly visible on the roads, I don’t see a major issue, with that.)

2. A small onboard battery in the BAVS receiver, that indicates a kill, in case of disconnection/low power of the main battery. A reset of this state, should only be possible by BE crew.
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Coffe
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Re: BAVS problems

Post by Coffe » 30 Jun 2014, 11:42

Also encountered a couple of BAVS problems this year. Mainly that the recievers weren't located high enough on the vehicles. I often ran into situations where a shield on the machine gun or armour plate on the roof obscured the BAVS reciever completely.

The poles that the bavs recievers are attached to needs to be longer to eliminate this. It's the only solution I can think of besides mounting some kind of reciever panels to the sides, front and rear of the vehicle (which would most likely be a more costly solution).

Remember that often when we bavs users take our shots we need to be really close due to the short range of the bavs-weapons and we're often in a crouching or prone position when doing so (if you're standing you're gonna get mowed down in a heartbeat by the onboard MG of the vehicle). If you're prone and the vehicle has a high suspension then it's even more important that the bavs reciever is located well above the vehicle, otherwise the vehicle itself is going to block the reciever. (again, something that happened to me a lot this year)

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Re: BAVS problems

Post by Coffe » 30 Jun 2014, 11:47

Also, I agree with the "alive" LED-idea.

Camouflage on vehicles don't really fill an in game use besides looks anyway, since vehicles are only allowed to be driven on the roads of the in game area. Had they been allowed to go off road it would've been a different story.

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Re: BAVS problems

Post by Panzergraf » 30 Jun 2014, 14:14

Turreted vehicles should have their BAVS-receivers mounted on the turret. This year, many vehicles were impossiple to kill from most angles, as the turret (or pirate flag) covered the receiver.

It's up to Berget Crew to make sure the receivers are mounted so that they are visible from all sides.
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Sgt._Shaw
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Re: BAVS problems

Post by Sgt._Shaw » 30 Jun 2014, 14:21

Yeah there where quite a lot issues with the BAVS this year.

And the 40mm had just a bad range (like 15 meters maybe...) and the reload time of the 40mm was way to short (3-4 seconds).
Give it some more range and more reload time should do the trick (like it was on B10) and maybe even lower the damage it does. So the vehicles do not get knocked out so easily. And the range of the AT-4 was just too far... seriously... 250m???? Just think about it, if you compare the range of an assault rifle (roughly around 40m) to that it's like you had a Javelin and not an AT-4. It's ok that the AT-4 is something that just blows a car out of the way, but you should have the chance to lay some supressive fire on the guy holding it. Hasn't to be 40m, but maybe 80m or something like that. And yes, i got the number from a GM on site (the 250m for the AT-4 range).
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Re: BAVS problems

Post by Panzergraf » 30 Jun 2014, 14:40

I don't know where the GM got that 250m number from, the AT4 has a range of about 50m in daylight, we have measured this previously.
50m is a good range, it's outranged by most airsoftguns, but not by much.
At night, in clear weather (no fog), the range is much further, the same goes for the 40mm grenades. That's just a fact of life when dealing with IR stuff like that, as far as I know it's not possible to do anything about it without making the range much shorter in daytime too.
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Re: BAVS problems

Post by Panzergraf » 30 Jun 2014, 15:07

How the receiver should be attached:
bavs bra.jpg
bavs bra.jpg (434.37 KiB) Viewed 5987 times
It's visible from all angles, and it's not in the way of the turret.

How NOT to attach the BAVS receiver:
bavs dårlig.jpg
bavs dårlig.jpg (394.27 KiB) Viewed 5987 times
Can you see it? No. It's behind the turret.
There were a couple of PMC vehicles with BAVS-mounts that were just as bad.
I'm not placing blame on any of the players here; mounting the BAVS receiver is done by Berget Crew, and they should know better.
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munkki
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by munkki » 01 Jul 2014, 00:04

How about this: Image
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B8 Pold
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B12 PMC MECH
B13 GCT MECH

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Coffe » 01 Jul 2014, 01:03

@Panzergraf:

Actually, the reciever of the first vehicle isn't high up enough either. Just think about it:

Say that you're laying prone like 20 meters away from the front of the car (that's about as far ad a 40 mm bavs grenade will reach), then the shield of the machine gun turret will still block the reciever. As I said in my previous post the poles need to be longer placing the reciever well above the vehicle itself. 100 cm just doesn't cut it.

With real life anti-vehicle weapons we could shoot the vehicles in any spot we want and do damage, regardless if we're prone, crouching, standing up or hanging from a monkey swing set. If bavs is supposed to simulate this, then we need the chance to hit vehicles from ALL angles (i mean it's bad enough that light foliage can make the vehicles immune to BAVS shots).

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Tiger_1
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Tiger_1 » 03 Jul 2014, 13:17

But all weapon systems have limitations. And you can't have cars driving around with a 4 meter mast with a bavs receiver on, just to make up for a few problems with the bavs. It is a lot better then the alternative system, Berget just needs to make sure that during mounting the sensor is visible from all sides at a set range.
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Coffe » 03 Jul 2014, 14:46

Tiger_1 wrote:But all weapon systems have limitations. And you can't have cars driving around with a 4 meter mast with a bavs receiver on, just to make up for a few problems with the bavs. It is a lot better then the alternative system, Berget just needs to make sure that during mounting the sensor is visible from all sides at a set range.
4 meters would be exagarate.

As long as the reciever is located at least 1 meter above the absolutely tallest point of the vehicle it would suffice.

Also, I don't see the problem of having the recievers located up high. The vehicles aren't allowed to drive off-road anyway, so the risk of the bavs-reciever snagging on branches and powerlines is pretty minimal.

Also, i suspect that BE's original idea was for the recievers to be located one meter above the vehicles. However some people build really shoddy crows nests on the roofs which makes proper attachement of the recievers difficult. There's two ways of addressing this:

1. Make the reciever poles longer.

2. Enforce stricter rules on the vehicles, making it the owners responsibility to insure that the reciever can be placed at least one meter above the vehicles tallest point with a clear 360 degree view.

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Mr Black
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Mr Black » 04 Jul 2014, 13:24

Another BAVS problem that I heard of was that players lacking BAVS weaponry just got infront of vehicles to stop them long enough for a BAVS weapon to get there.

IMO the rules need an update saying something like "If you are located within one meter in front of or behind a vehicle when the driver revs the engine you have been run over and are considered hit. In case of being run over you must move away from the vehicle so that it is able to pass."

Unless you are trying to win the Darwin award you wont stand in the way of an armoured enemy vehicle. :)
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Tiger_1
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Tiger_1 » 04 Jul 2014, 13:43

That is a very good point. But the look grim, keep driving, does work most of the time with idiots like that...
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Mr Black
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Mr Black » 04 Jul 2014, 13:47

I see your point Tiger_1, but if there is a rule about it perhaps we could avoid SOME stupid situations. ;)
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Panzergraf » 04 Jul 2014, 14:34

Coffe wrote:Also, I don't see the problem of having the recievers located up high. (at least 1m above the talles point of the vehicle)
I do.
Some of the roads have over-hanging branches, these would damage or break off the receiver.
When engaging a vehicle from within the forest, the canopy might hide the receiver.
Having the receiver too high up would create more problems than it would solve.

Just above the turret (or just above the roof, if it's a non-turreted vehicle) will suffice.
As long as it's visible from 360 degrees from most combat ranges, it's good.

You mention real life anti tank weapons;
Most of these need a certain distance for the warhead to arm. I'm not sure about the AT4, but if I recall correctly 40mm grenades arm themselves after 18 meters. Not scoring a hit on the receiver when firing a 40mm from 5m prone is not unrealistic, IMHO.

A simulation system like BAVS, or even the laser-sim systems used by real armies, will never be 100% accurate representations of real weapon capabilities.
But simply moving the BAVS receivers to the top of the turret will vastly improve gameplay.
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