Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 12
Askorbiini
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Askorbiini » 06 Jul 2014, 00:17

I never had the chance to get to Dolina this year (ye bloody ravens!). Still, I got this feeling that the civilians were lacking in numbers this year. I actually think, that (along what has been said here already) Berget should encourage LARP-players to attend these games. Either with a lower ticketprice for civilians and/or some other benefits along the game.

For me, a guy who's been getting in to the whole LARPing thing for the past few years, I would like a chance to interact with civilians around the game area. You could have like a main city (Dolina or whatever), few ingame tent villages around the map and some tactical points (like this years oil fields, waste disposal plant, etc.) run by players playing as civilians.

I know nothing about this, but still I wanted to throw my 2 cents along. :D
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by L4gi » 06 Jul 2014, 01:16

Problem is that one building and 10 tents dont really make a village. The city/village of the Härnösand game area always provided a good atmosphere for LARP. Hopefully we'll get to play in Härnösand next year. :)
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Jerry_ASP
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Jerry_ASP » 10 Jul 2014, 21:23

Just wondering, aren't they any Larpers in Sweden? Because the civilian faction (and by this I mean the real civilians, not undercover agents for whoever, psyops, etc....) doesn't necessairly have to be populated by airsofters. Or, dunno, lower the entry fee for civilians? I don't quite understand why there is so few true civvies on Berget every year. In Czech events, there is usually enough of them. Maybe a different attitude of the people to the game?
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Mr Black
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Mr Black » 10 Jul 2014, 23:09

There are other airsoft games in Sweden where larpers and airsofters attend at great success, Farmengames for instance(post apoc zombie airsoft larp, that's right it awesome).
I believe one problem is that BE have not always succeeded with taking care of larpers. Not many people feel like paying a full price for the ticket just to feel like movie props.
I belive that BE could involve the swedish larping community with great success if they cut down prices for true civilians and made sure to have an organization that took good care of them.
FYI I felt taken care of this year.
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by M.Svensson » 10 Jul 2014, 23:33

Jerry_ASP wrote:Just wondering, aren't they any Larpers in Sweden? Because the civilian faction (and by this I mean the real civilians, not undercover agents for whoever, psyops, etc....) doesn't necessairly have to be populated by airsofters. Or, dunno, lower the entry fee for civilians? I don't quite understand why there is so few true civvies on Berget every year. In Czech events, there is usually enough of them. Maybe a different attitude of the people to the game?
Well many LARPers in Sweden have pretty much said "We don't want to be props for the airsofters to shoot at!" so I guess that many LARPers have got the wrong picture of airsoft events or have gotten treated badly at previous events they've been to.

Think it would be easier to get civilians if the ticket for them were a bit cheaper but maybe give them some kind of weapon restrictions so not everyone that just want to shoot buys civilian tickets because it's cheaper.
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Rabagast » 11 Jul 2014, 01:10

Mr Black wrote:There are other airsoft games in Sweden where larpers and airsofters attend at great success, Farmengames for instance(post apoc zombie airsoft larp, that's right it awesome).
I believe one problem is that BE have not always succeeded with taking care of larpers. Not many people feel like paying a full price for the ticket just to feel like movie props.
I belive that BE could involve the swedish larping community with great success if they cut down prices for true civilians and made sure to have an organization that took good care of them.
Perhaps an idea would be to invite the LARP community to help write the story and/or the setting? As far as I can tell, most larpers I know are far better at such than most airsofters(in Norway atleast). If they can help write down some good settings or stories which includes two major armed factions with something to fight, for I do belive it can be a win.

Of course, f you want larping it needs to be set up for it. Like Dolina village for instance: It didn't exactly scream "come and larp with us", and the overall setting of the village kinda ruined my attemts at larping with the villagers.

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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Appelby » 23 Jul 2014, 14:19

There is a general need for a proper village and marketplace.
In any case there is a general need for more proper civilians or as you all call it
True Civilians.
People should also be more open to civil administration and make complaints about
different things. I got good response from people coming to me for permits but there should
be a general consensus about how to handle different issues around it.
I wanted to be a little more cruel than I were but it is hard to get things done when you only
have 6 guys in total not running around and not having a hidden agenda.

I really wanted this to work and I Think it partially did but I Think some things were screwed up
from the start.
That is why I spent so much time around people getting to know them and wanted to gain their trust instead
of being the cruelest and most vindictive General Commissar in the World.
It was either that or be killed by the civilians on the first Day because of the lack of support from Raven
Command both in manpower and just general information.

I felt kinda hung out to dry and so did my friends.
I am not giving up though and will be continuing my
Mission to bring LARP in to this game.
Everything cannot be solved with BB's from Gun and
People need to remember it!!

Anyone who is interested in playing TRUE Civilians next year, lets talk and make things apparent to Berget.
Not just to make it a good experience for us but for everyone!!
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B11 - Doktor D.M. Kretchmann, Surgeon (UA17 XO and CO)
B12 - General Commissar Appelby, Political Bureau of Lerando
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Coffe » 24 Jul 2014, 07:39

Seems to be a bit of proliferation in spies, double agents and insurgents among the civilians.

Is this because of GM choice or is it because of civilian player choice? (i.e is it BE who hands out the roles of spies/faction agents to the civilians or is it the players themselves who decide that they are going to act as a spy/assassin/agent for faction x or y?)

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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by PDog » 24 Jul 2014, 12:50

Coffe wrote:Seems to be a bit of proliferation in spies, double agents and insurgents among the civilians.

Is this because of GM choice or is it because of civilian player choice? (i.e is it BE who hands out the roles of spies/faction agents to the civilians or is it the players themselves who decide that they are going to act as a spy/assassin/agent for faction x or y?)
As BE stated somewhere there were only 30 real civilians. A number I think is high, as most "civilians" I encountered, my friends and myself included, were actually UA17 or other "fighting" groups, disguised as civilians, as were our orders.

It was great fun to mess about with Ravens, even if they swarmed Dolina at all times. Gave us opportunities enough to create chaos by delivering pot-shots and hiding again after.

Suggestion to BE: lower the price for civilians DRASTICALLY. This might make it more interesting for LARP'ers specifically to come and LARP, adding to the overall feel of Berget and mix the "hidden agenda" guys more with them.

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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Panzergraf » 24 Jul 2014, 21:26

PDog wrote:Suggestion to BE: lower the price for civilians DRASTICALLY. This might make it more interesting for LARP'ers specifically to come and LARP, adding to the overall feel of Berget and mix the "hidden agenda" guys more with them.
This. I think it would be much better, for airsofters and larpers alike, if the larp part of the game had enough players and was fleshed out enough for it to stand on its own legs independently of the airsoft game. Not that the airsoft "war" shouldn't cross paths with the civilian larp game, but it should be a fully fleshed out larp event in its own right anyway.
Having a huge war being fought out in the woods around the civilian village (and at times, in it) would be a unique backdrop for a larp game too.
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Coffe
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Coffe » 25 Jul 2014, 05:50

PDog wrote:
Coffe wrote:Seems to be a bit of proliferation in spies, double agents and insurgents among the civilians.

Is this because of GM choice or is it because of civilian player choice? (i.e is it BE who hands out the roles of spies/faction agents to the civilians or is it the players themselves who decide that they are going to act as a spy/assassin/agent for faction x or y?)
As BE stated somewhere there were only 30 real civilians. A number I think is high, as most "civilians" I encountered, my friends and myself included, were actually UA17 or other "fighting" groups, disguised as civilians, as were our orders.

It was great fun to mess about with Ravens, even if they swarmed Dolina at all times. Gave us opportunities enough to create chaos by delivering pot-shots and hiding again after.

Suggestion to BE: lower the price for civilians DRASTICALLY. This might make it more interesting for LARP'ers specifically to come and LARP, adding to the overall feel of Berget and mix the "hidden agenda" guys more with them.
Seems to me that the "hidden agenda"-people who fight behind civilian colours need to be reduced. Or at least be a set percentage of the total number of civilians (like for every 5 or 10 REAL civvies, BE can allow one hidden agenda-agent).

Now some might feel that this would prevent a alot of people from being spies, assassins and double agents, but look at it this way: if this becomes a trend that there are almost no real civilians at all but everyone's a spy or assassin of some kind, then what will HQ do?

The Ravens camp this year was only a few paces from Dolina, and it became clear that a lot of people with civilian armbands was working against the Ravens. The Raven command could've just issued a standing extermination order on Dolina "just to be sure", sending in a platoon every re-spawn hour and slaughtering everyone wearing a civilian armband.

The military factions in Berget definitely tend to have the numbers to pull this off if necessary, and I doubt most civilian players will find it funny to spend most of their time waiting to spawn.

If the numbers of spies and assassins are greatly reduced however, it would be hard to justify such extreme actions.

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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by Appelby » 25 Jul 2014, 11:27

Next year I will definitely come as a TRUE Civilian and I hope Mr Black/Mudwater will join me :)
Currently I am discussing with my LARP friends here in Denmark and we are trying to make a group
With at least 10 people, that will be playing tradesmen and such all the way during the game.
But not only do we need more TRUE civilians but also the makings of a proper economic system and therfore
also more civilian traffic between the different camps of civilians.

Example: in order for the tavern to sell food, He must get food crates from a farmer but He needs fuel for his tractor
Which in turn can be bought at the Oil Fields, that then buys food from the market place and tavern.

We need to have rules on what people need so they have to move from site to site and
buy the things they need.
So the things we need is at least a second City and civilian owned supplypoints, so that trade is a necessity.
It will give a more solid atmosphere of a country, trying to survive.

More wooden buildings in town and no more Iron Walls as this year It was more or less a waste of materials.
Tents are fine but not if you have to sell your image as an occupation that actually requires a building to perform your duties.
Put a maximum number on different professions and keep an open mind to new professions.

Maybe combine the tavern with the food from berget, both meals and the kiosk.
But keep it ingame all the way.

Say your thoughts on this, please :)
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by B2fox » 25 Jul 2014, 11:38

I agree with both Coffe and Appelby :)
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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by PDog » 25 Jul 2014, 17:08

Your action on contacting your LARP friends is a good idea, Appleby. Even though I'm no 'real' LARP'er myself I shall sign myself up on LARP websites/forums over here in the Netherlands (and Belgium & France) and see if there's awareness of the existence of Berget and if not notify them. That might get a few interested.

I just wish BE would lower the prices for civilians (LARP'ers) then, to make sure it ain't the biggest hurdle for people who enjoy role-playing to purchase a ticket.

Because, even though it was my first Berget, I did have fun playing an "civilian" (whilst being UA17 with the primary goal to pester the BP, which soon changed into our "oppressors", the Ravens).

I truly believe it could be so much more.

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Re: Living in Dolina Village :) PROs and CONs

Post by CrocKSI » 26 Jul 2014, 22:42

Appelby wrote:There is a general need for a proper village and marketplace.
In any case there is a general need for more proper civilians or as you all call it
True Civilians.
People should also be more open to civil administration and make complaints about
different things. I got good response from people coming to me for permits but there should
be a general consensus about how to handle different issues around it.
I wanted to be a little more cruel than I were but it is hard to get things done when you only
have 6 guys in total not running around and not having a hidden agenda.

I really wanted this to work and I Think it partially did but I Think some things were screwed up
from the start.
That is why I spent so much time around people getting to know them and wanted to gain their trust instead
of being the cruelest and most vindictive General Commissar in the World.
It was either that or be killed by the civilians on the first Day because of the lack of support from Raven
Command both in manpower and just general information.

I felt kinda hung out to dry and so did my friends.
I am not giving up though and will be continuing my
Mission to bring LARP in to this game.
Everything cannot be solved with BB's from Gun and
People need to remember it!!

Anyone who is interested in playing TRUE Civilians next year, lets talk and make things apparent to Berget.
Not just to make it a good experience for us but for everyone!!
I'm in!
My greatest friend played a true civilian this time and we both agreed after a bit of thinking that we will continue in the same roll but with two more guys working in the same buisness and more props.
Sorry Appelby for not attending this year but my real steel job sent me elsewhere.
Peace in my sight.
Berget8, civilian
Berget9, Romeo5
Berget10, civilian
Berget11, The Commander of UA17 aka LOBO-17 aka Chris Coke
Berget12, Childbirth
Berget13, No babysiter available
Berget14, Civilian, Gym owner. Sport&Fitness

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