Debriefing Berget 13.

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 13
L4gi
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by L4gi » 29 Jun 2015, 16:08

Im pretty sure a vehicle never made it into our base... The whole situation with the base attacks, back and forth, was really silly. Not giving out enough missions to do will end up in stuff like this, hopefully we will never have the same kind of problems mission wise again.
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seaQ
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by seaQ » 29 Jun 2015, 16:59

As Thor Company rolled in for the base attack on Friday morning, another Mech unit had already been there (I think so because we drove by them and they looked like they had already been killed off). When we arrived at the gate the first car (The green GBM 3 points car with 2 turrets on) got killed by a GM before he even had popped the artillery strikes (fireworks). The rest of the cars were shot down immediately after that when the fireworks were in the air.

We managed to dismount a good amount of the crew but the attack basically came to an halt because of the GM gunning us down. My squad managed to link up with some infantry and continued to push into the woods close to the base but we were killed off pretty fast.

After this the whole platoon decided on not telling where we were going to the commanders as it basically destroyed the whole game for us.

We also talked to some of the blues about this and they agreed GMs made the game worse by meddling with the fights.
diamid wrote:We decided to make an common agreement, that way would not have to give a moral  crushing RTB. Agreement was to let the Liburania army start their artillery response early. Sadly and I appolagice, meant that some players where taken our before the even could see an single blue.

But I know BE Crew tried to be fair. In the OP order/rules all should have died. But they tried to select single groups and let some attack their base. A mech was inside the centre of their base after 19 min.
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Felix
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Felix » 29 Jun 2015, 17:18

Overall this Berget was beyond awesome for the group of civilians I travelled with. I've lost count of the times we had so much fun we still fall over laughing when it is brought up in conversation.

The civilian GMs
Did a marvelous job of improving the civvy game. That simple.

My one point of concention is the "double booking", for instance we got a job to find the lost laboratory for the Demeter Division, only to find that they had gotten the loc some other way. This runs contrary to building up military LARP game by involving civilian characters in it.

This is especially true for the GCT spies. For one, several of them just wore really sloppy costumes and did not bother putting in the larping to make a believeable cover(i.e. "journalists" just sitting in the village when there is already an active working in game newspaper created by hard working larpers). In addition, the psyops team already had tons of assets recruited who could have done this job for them. This runs contrary to the "less spy-ninjas" goal.

Game Balance
Worked out terribly.
This might not seem all that important to people playing civilian, but I suspect it would have been a lot more interesting to have the village actually changing sides for periods of time allowing interaction with both sides of the conflict. The balance issues also left the CGT a really awful choice as allies for civilians, because it was fairly obvious they could never be able to provide any safety.

The five-o
Hades could have been the ten or so people who were in the group for the larping, with some weapons restrictions(~handguns and shotguns) to discourage pure airsofters. The rest could have been rolled into some force protection unit and dug in for defensive airsoft(further away from the village). I feel that some solution like this would have made the police/civilian interaction a lot more tense and interesting.

Military units with larp added in
I really want to thank the Demeter and Psyops, and some of Hades players for doing a very good job larping. Hope Berget keeps units like these in the mix and hopefully keeps adding more similar player options.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Jakobsson » 29 Jun 2015, 17:31

madsvg wrote:Jakobsson: I don't know what you did on berget, but as a mech (which during day 2 went for a recontrip) we met Ikaros players everywhere, you might have been at the wrong place?
We were rolling with Thor Company as Car number 1.

Had some fights with the blue, mainly at point 10.
But GM was a much stronger enemy..

We even got taken out by own forces two times. :mrgreen:
Operation crossroads 2007
Berget 12: PMC Mech
Berget 13: Ikaros, Hermes QRF

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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by M.Koho » 29 Jun 2015, 17:41

Felix, the reporters were our mission, not our spies! We were supposed to save them but never really got the order.
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Losolos
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Losolos » 29 Jun 2015, 18:56

there was no undercover Civilian from gamestart, also the press !! the blue press guys was our shield against GCT Artillery.

We catched some PSYOPS later :)
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Arradin
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Arradin » 29 Jun 2015, 19:03

Losolos wrote:there was no undercover Civilian from gamestart
Not completely true....... :D
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Glide » 30 Jun 2015, 00:01

I don't see the point of destroying stories/livemoments when they are made up. We made a fantastic story of the police beein' corrupt. It was shot down like Hindenburg.

The story is hopefully out later by one of our crewmembers or in another thread.

Total involved in the story was bout 50 when it all comes around. But the GM took it down with just putting us back in town. We went of b/c of the slow wait. And after asking our highest in order if it was any idéa of keep on playing this story he told us to get in line with the normal forces. That's like telling us it's not a story they want in the game.

Hopefully the police had something new for a while atleast. +Sorry if I hurt someones feelings by beein' rude ingame.

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B2fox
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by B2fox » 30 Jun 2015, 10:01

Glide wrote:I don't see the point of destroying stories/livemoments when they are made up. We made a fantastic story of the police beein' corrupt. It was shot down like Hindenburg.
Some of us, were highly corrupt :P
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munkki
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by munkki » 30 Jun 2015, 12:13

Pros

New ticket system was very good, even tho would be more effective if bases could have large screen for all players to see the map.

Village was nice, even tho there is way too many small holes, where you can stick your weapon out and barely see where you shoot. Make it proper window or seal it 100%.

Cons

Power ratio was really way off, GCT had approx 15 cars and Igaros had 47. This is something what you really should balance already at ticket sales. You could have balanced this with large amount of extra BAVs for GCT, but seems like you were out of them, as i heard rumors some did not get rented BAVs at all.

Berget shop was really crappy and prices were approx double from normal prices. You should really stay with weapon repair service and renting weapons/BAVs for players. Let those guys deal with gear and weapon sales who know what to do like Varusteleka, etc.

HPA weapons: well when lmg shoots to +100m distance and branches are snapping around you, it's far from m140. I have been in Berget since berget 7 and this was one of the worst because these assholes. You need to seal these weapons, so player can't upgrade his weapon in 2 sec and if sealing isn't possible he can't play with it. If this is not going to be changed at least for me the tradition of spending 1 week/ year in forests in Sweden will end.


Edit: Oh, forgot to mention, that roads were really stuck all the time. really fun to be mech when you can't use your vehicle to get anywhere. :D
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diamid
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by diamid » 30 Jun 2015, 12:19

I can say that when it came to BE handed out BAVS/AT4. IKAROS did not get any, even thou the OP order said we would get 3 x AT4 and Mines. This was done to try help balance. We only had players owned and player rented BAVS granades.

At one point we captured a AT4, but it was handed back to BE Crew.

But yes, it was unbalanced in ammount of cars. But cars usally follow the owner and his/her chooice of side. And I understand peoples wish to play with friends. Two of the Mech Companies in IKAROS are Airsoft Mech groups, one Norwegian and one Swedish that play togheter outside Berget as well.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Qwerty » 30 Jun 2015, 12:31

munkki wrote:
Village was nice, even tho there is way too many small holes, where you can stick your weapon out and barely see where you shoot. Make it proper window or seal it 100%.
This! Got hit multiple times due some idiot sticking his gun out of small 5cm x 5cm gap and shooting blindfire. Also some Ikaros mech gunners used blindfire by sticking his hand out of vehicle to use gun while he seated in cover.

I found base logistics to be much better than last year. More toilets and food didn't last out from kiosk.
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Felix
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Felix » 30 Jun 2015, 13:37

M.Koho wrote:Felix, the reporters were our mission, not our spies! We were supposed to save them but never really got the order.
I'll retract that comment then. For the future though, maybe rescue objectives should be absolutely impossible to mistake for spies.
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Sorner » 30 Jun 2015, 13:44

I was reading through this thread and i quickly sensed a feeling from the Ikaros side that it was them against the GMs and that they just dropped random artillery strikes to make the fight more equal. I can tell you, as a part of the GCT mortars and artillery, that we dropped a MASSIVE amount of mortars and artillery. Everytime we could, we called in a grid and we rather dropped two mortar strikes than one.. We even made a trip out to a spot just 500-600 meters from the Ikaros HQ and bombed the red camp, which might could have seemed a little random ;)

With that said, even us in the mortar section was surprised by the amount of airstrikes and artillery dropped without us calling it..

I can't tell how much we actually called in, but the direct line from our squad leader to the HQ was glowing and we even got told that we were low on ammo at the end of day 3..

To get back to my review of this years Berget:

This was my second year attending, also my second year on the "blue" side and I must say that I had ALOT of fun. Despite all the things of GCT not having enough AT, being vastly outnumbered and in general a command structure that ended up not working at all, then I drove home to Denmark with a great feeling..

Most of the stuff that i have to say (good and bad) have already been written, so just to summarize:

- Great work by the GMs, they were where they should be this year, and they were quick to help out if we had any questions, concerns or complains..

- Compared to last year then the amount of cheating was VERY close to 0 this year. We only experienced one guy not taking his hits right away, but it wasnt something a short burst from a vehiclemounted MG couldnt fix. Only thing there might be to say else than the one episode is that there was alot of confusion about several rules involving mines(can you drive around or not), mortars/artillery(do you die instantly) and distances from burning vehicles (how far).. That needs to be stated clearly, so there wont be that much confusion next year..

- Just the fact that we were in a "real" base this year was amazing. The GCT base (warm water or not) was 100 times better than the border police camp last year..

- Some is complaining about that the GCT HQ was a mess and that people either just sat around doing nothing or went roque. I saw this too but not even close to the same amount and some other people in here. As soon as we returned from a mission then we usually started looking for a new one - and this often ended up with us talking with Psy-ops, Sappers and some mech-inf to find a new spot to attack in force. We took the plan and talked with the HQ and 9 out of 10 times we got the go for the mission. So even though HQ didnt always have a mission people should think out of the box and bring some suggestions - after all its us driving and walking around in the area..

All in all a great experience - would rate 8/10 - and I know Skulls will be back next year with even more people :)
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Re: Debriefing Berget 13.

Post by Panzergraf » 30 Jun 2015, 14:10

munkki wrote:HPA weapons: well when lmg shoots to +100m distance and branches are snapping around you, it's far from m140.
You can easily get 100m range within 140m/s with an R-hop or something similar, and that's not something that's limited to HPA powered gas guns.

I have used externally powered gas guns (HPA and/or CO2) every Berget since B6, and this year they actually wrote down what output pressure I had set my regulator to when chroning, which was a really nice touch IMHO.
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