The larp within the airsoftgame

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 13

Did you like Larp on B13

Yes! Add more!
70
79%
It was ok!
14
16%
No, it was not good. Less larp
5
6%
 
Total votes: 89

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Felix
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Felix » 10 Jul 2015, 17:38

Alternatively, factions could negotiate free passage, or even passage with a guarantee of safety where the civvies checked for enemies/mines etc.

Granted, if one side has a lot more resources, a permanent presence might make more sense, but the balance issue is something I'd at least prefer BE adressed anyway. If the sides were at least so equal that dedicating 50-100 people to holding an otherwise neutral area would seem like a waste, then negotiating passage might seem like a better option.

As for the realism/making sense, for one, Berget is not really realistic in any way, nor does it make or need to make sense all the time. Plus, all the times I've been on a real life missions, we've neve ever bothered to take and hold a neutral town solely to guarantee safe passage, the perceived need to do that could just as well be a product of Berget game mechanics and flow.(Or my experiences could be very atypical of real war.)

In the end it is also about designing a cool game. I think a more neutral/independent larp village would go a long way, but people are free to disagree. If making such an area is chosen as a good way to organise, some compromises will have to be made, hopefully in a way that gives every player a net gain to their game experience.
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Askorbiini
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Askorbiini » 13 Jul 2015, 07:54

Like I said last year, I really would hope that there would be a civilian (LARP) players holding important points in the game area. In the way of "civilians running the oil field", "civilians working at the fishing hole", etc. That way I could have LARPing interactions with civilians, even if I don't have an access to the main city. That would also give the civilians a possibility to side with factions that they feel important, if they want to help with resources or need protection. It could be even, that those points give supplypoints or something similar, so siding with the "owner" would be beneficial.
I feel like those "important points on the map" have no purpose now. If those places had civilians "working", it would give (at least to me) a much more life-like feeling of working in a country that war tore apart.
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vinni
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by vinni » 13 Jul 2015, 14:55

I get the feeling that people are misplacing their priorities.

If you want to LARP, join a LARP unit. If you're part of the infantry, you go where you're told and do as you're told. If your side doesn't reach any LARP locations, that's a shame but you can't expect BE to make the LARP accessible for everyone.

If you're in a fighting unit, you're there to fight, not to LARP. Any opportunity to get to do some LARP should be considered a bonus, not a given right included in the ticket price.
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Corleone » 14 Jul 2015, 02:24

Oh but vinni, I think there's a reasonable demand for middle-ground. It would also make a fighting faction even more interesting, because you couldn't always threaten your way forward with a gun. At least it should be considered costly with less effective workers, sabotage conducted by emplyees, strikes etc. Maybe Demeter & Hades would fit that description better, but there's always room for a little RP within the normal infantry too. At least it was this year, considering the wonderful changes they did to the LARP-portion of the game. Earlier years you had approx. 90% chance of talking to a terrorist, so there's no wonder people would just grief civilian-looking people no matter who they were. At least we're heading in the right direction with the LARP at Berget \^_^/
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Felix
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Felix » 14 Jul 2015, 11:45

Larps tend to get better the more interaction between players you're able to create. So in that line, it would probably be better for everyone if more players got access to the larp.

I disagree with the "either or" approach, both in that I think it would be good for more military players to have the option to larp when they want to, and that I'd like more civvies with guns who can make some form of stand if it comes to it(note: NOT undercover agents and terrorists, just militias like the ones abundant in several conflict zones).
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Askorbiini
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Askorbiini » 14 Jul 2015, 12:59

vinni wrote:If you want to LARP, join a LARP unit. If you're part of the infantry, you go where you're told and do as you're told.
I know you didn't aim this solely to me, but I'll address this point anyway. The reason why I have been staying away from coming in to Berget to play a LARP-role as a civilian, is that I feel I wouldn't get to do as much as I've been doing now. Previous years have proved that "civilians" are mostly undercover agents, which is not my cup of tea.
This year was a lot different, when the short interactions I had with civilian LARP-players did not feel like talking to jamesbond-esque secret agents. That is the change I was waiting to happen.

Now the only thing that holds me back from going full out on that roleplaying stuff is that I would like to have something to do. Something to run. Given my point of having a civilian group running the oil field, the mill or some other key point on the map, I would like to be able to apply for a role to have "something" that affects gameplay to own or run. Even if the thing is something as little as giving away supplypoints on hourly basis.

...maybe I should ask BE for this. After all, maybe this could be done but no-one has asked to do so :D
B5 - Finnish Freedom Fighters
B6 - Separatist Reform Party
B10 - Zansian Black Guard
B11 - GCT Taskforce / SFODU
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B15 - NAF / FinBat Mech

vinni
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by vinni » 14 Jul 2015, 20:58

I was indeed not aiming at anyone in particular :)

I certainly agree that there is room for RP, even in the bog-standard infantry, but it seems like people demand it to be accessible. Which is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.
B6: NATO
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BXI: Blood Raven Recon
BXII: Blood Raven CO
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Arradin
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Arradin » 14 Jul 2015, 20:59

Askorbiini wrote:
vinni wrote:If you want to LARP, join a LARP unit. If you're part of the infantry, you go where you're told and do as you're told.
I know you didn't aim this solely to me, but I'll address this point anyway. The reason why I have been staying away from coming in to Berget to play a LARP-role as a civilian, is that I feel I wouldn't get to do as much as I've been doing now. Previous years have proved that "civilians" are mostly undercover agents, which is not my cup of tea.
This year was a lot different, when the short interactions I had with civilian LARP-players did not feel like talking to jamesbond-esque secret agents. That is the change I was waiting to happen.

Now the only thing that holds me back from going full out on that roleplaying stuff is that I would like to have something to do. Something to run. Given my point of having a civilian group running the oil field, the mill or some other key point on the map, I would like to be able to apply for a role to have "something" that affects gameplay to own or run. Even if the thing is something as little as giving away supplypoints on hourly basis.

...maybe I should ask BE for this. After all, maybe this could be done but no-one has asked to do so :D
During this Berget, (Almost) Every single Civilian had something that Military people either wanted or had to have to complete thier missions.
We made our own characters and missions, and the other stuff was built around it.

So - Come to B14 as Civilian i tell you. it was amazing.
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Henke » 17 Jul 2015, 16:44

Jack Scarecrow wrote:Yes i know it might be hard to do. And even if the town were neutral i am sure one of the fractions would just hide in the woods all around it and shoot any enemy they see coming. So maybe keep it as it was this year and let a fraction ''guard'' the town, but give out other armbands to the semi-larp fraction of the enemy side so they could peacefully enter to gather information and such. Maybe even let them dress up as civiliand and threat them as such even if we see their armband is ''enemy''.

And yes GCT didn´t seem to care much about taking prisoners or even using their brain enough to see who is important or not. Really by the way i dressed and the fact i came there unarmed with a drugged GCT soldier as escort and a suitcase full of drugs i expected them to atleast figure out on their own that i was something different than a soldier and hand me over to psy-ops but i was wrong.... I think the guy sitting next to me noticed how sad i got :cry: .
Guess GCT were just there for airsoft and not bothering with story whatsoever. Psy-Ops tried tho but didn´t do too well.
Cuz well without other soldiers capturing key prisoners for them what can they do?.
Very very bad plays from GCT!

Yes, at least in my squad we are no Larpers, we are clearly not using our brains enough either, but I want to ask something about the incident with the drugged blue soldier.
As we were fireing at red players further up on the hill a blue player shot several other blue players behind me in their back. Blue players just thought he had poor seeing and after a couple of arguments and trying to tell the drugged soldier he were shooting at his own we understood that he was drugged (he said so to the ones he just shot to explain)
Anyway I shot him and then I saw you behind him and shot you aswell.
We healed you and offcourse I understood that you were someone we wanted to interrogate more by your clothes and your medical box.
Since I dont know any of the LARP rules I simpley asked if the drugged soldier would still be drugged if we healed him. You said no, and he was very keen on bringing you in to our Psy-Ops unit. I didnt know we had one such unit, I would just have had you walking in front of me with hands on your head, a pistol in your back, screaming "WE HAVE A PRISONER! DO ANYONE KNOW WHAT TO DO?"

Now I went back to my squad and we climbed the mountain and attacked CP11 (or 10)

My question: Weren´t you handed over to the Psy-ops Unit?

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Jack Scarecrow
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Jack Scarecrow » 17 Jul 2015, 18:09

Well once we had passed through the guard points without anyone caring and me not wanting to enter into the GCT base cuz it would kinda go too much against my role we decided to hang around and see if we could get anyones attention.
So when we heard the shooting going on i saw that as a good opportunity to get up behind you guys and we did watch you for a moment before i told him to start shoot at you.
This was an attemt to get your attention to see that something was going on and he did yell that he was drugged several times to make it clear. Even told drugged by him and point at me. I didn´t expect him to be that good to be able to take out so many. I figured he would get shot down right away but due to the confusion your guys didn´t seem to want to shot him even when he was clearly shooting at you. I guess that was a successful experiment :P
(Don´t worry tho. If he had managed to take you all out i would have healed everyone and taken one or two prisoners and letting the rest go).

Shooting me wasnt really needed as i was an unarmed role but atleast you guys healed me up. I was taken to the base where i was pretty much just sat down and i tried to ask them if they had gotten the info about me to wich no one seemed to answer. I did so cuz all the GCT i had talked to had claimed they had no idea who i was so i figured my mission had gotten lost. I even offered to show them the mission right there but no interest was given by whoever that ''commander'' (or whatever he is) was.
I was NOT handed over to Psy-Ops and not even searched or asked any questions whatsoever before i suddenly got shot by surprise.
They did NOT even inform Psy-Ops that i was there at all.
Still can´t understand what that guy was thinking. It was just so lame to shoot a larp character without even asking anything and check who i am.
Felt like a waste of time going all way there making it so easy for them just to have some douce decide he doesn´t want to bother and just get rid of me. :evil:

After that however i decided to ask around the camp to find the Psy-Ops wich i did and explained the situation. They were not happy that they weren´t informed about that i had been captured but yes they were missing the main information about me wich they should have had at the start of d2. But i can say they aren´t pleased that someone else in their team decided to refuse them to do their work even when the possibility was right there.
Psy-Ops didn´t seem to have gotten handed the prisoners at all but instead someone of the commanders just decided to not bother with prisoners and told everyone to just kill them or not even bother bring them to base wich gave less for the psy-ops to do.
I guess he was just not caring for story or larp and was just there for airsoft but then why ruin the game for others?

So well all you guys should do if you aren´t into larping is to make sure the larp roles and prisoners actually get handed over to the groups who have gone as Psy-Ops or such. Or simply ask around camp if anyone can larp. Killing them off randomly and ignoring them just damages the game even for your own team.
Some of the larp roles doesn´t spawn again and will dissapear for good if dead. But since GCT failed so much i decided to spawn whenever i got randomly killed to not let the triggar happy airsofters ruin the game for me :) .
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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Henke » 17 Jul 2015, 21:01

Jack Scarecrow wrote:.
Thanks for the speedy reply!

As said I didnt know we had a Psy-ops unit (or any idea what LARP is either) so if I would have taken you to the GCT camp you would probably have been shot by the same guy that shot you now anyway. But I am sorry it ruined your game experiance.
Maybe we are slow to return fire from a player that clearly have our blue armband, because we had a lot of friendly fire in this years game and had to scream out our armband colour to know which ones to shot at and which ones who are friends from time to time, and we had no idea that a player could be drugged to change sides. Still, we should have done it better.
Also its embarrassing that we didnt see you until you were that close to our position... wearing all black in the middle of the day you should have been seen earlier.

Anyway, I had a great experiance this year with sneaky missions climbing hills and amushing CP:s, getting hit in our base, several hours of figthing in a crossroads. Fighting in the town. (taking the town with a large force, staying to defend it, just to realize that our whole unit has moved on and our squad was the only ones left. I were the last blue player in town at the bank-roof with reds coming in from everywere...) We played in large units, in small units and in platoon-sized units. We even got to do a little bit of Rambo:ing when we got lost from our squad.
I will be back next year, and hopefully I will have read some of the LARP-rules a little bit better, or at least ask some high ranking officer What to do with prisoners and if he know if there are any special ones to look out after...

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Re: The larp within the airsoftgame

Post by Jack Scarecrow » 17 Jul 2015, 21:46

Well i am sure atleast two of the guys there saw us as they looked at us but then turned to look up ahead again.
And it probably wouldn´t have made any difference if you brought me there as i guess they would have called on the same guy.
What would have made a difference was if they actually had the information about me and i got handed over to Psy-Ops.
Also the idea of him being drugged to teamkill is not something you will have to worry about unless i am together with the drugged ones. I would never send someone off alone with the order to teamkill anyone he sees. My role was simply that i make different kind of drugs and experiment on people. So yes turning enemies into guards is something i work on aswell and will continue to do. And i will always be right there with them if so. :P

Hopefully i can continue my role next year and we will make sure the information arrives at the correct group and also will send leads during the game so they can send people out on missions. I did send prisoners back to GCT alive and even one having the actuall info paper about me he was supposed to hand over but i dont know what happened to it. So someone clearly messed up on that part since it got lost twice.
Might been cuz of GCT bad commander structure.
Story might change completly till next year but i will still try fit the role in. Or i just change name and backstory but do the same thing and look the same. Usualy works :P Will need alot more test subjects!

Sounds like a good plan for next year:) And prisoners to look out for are ofc anyone who stands out and anyone wearing the ranking patches. But normal soldiers can be useful too. Might aswell ask them if they want to be taken or not after you have cleared the area. Ikaros grabbed pretty many prisoners wich was good for me since i needed them for my experiments. I even saved some from getting executed and later let them go back to GCT alive :D
So if you are on my team next year you can always sell the prisoners to me. Just ask them first if they agree to be pows and to larp a bit.
B12: Border Police - Lonely Medic/Spy.
B13: Hades Police - Dr. Black.
B14: UPIR - Dr. Black and Reaper.
B15: UPIR Psy-Ops. Prison Warden.

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