IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

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Majk
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Majk » 24 Mar 2019, 13:13

MiqaFox wrote:
22 Mar 2019, 10:02
Good update! Will be interesting to hear how you want to manage chrono at check in.

Also, out of curiosity. Since you seem to have taken drag into account. Have you done any studies to determine the drag coefficient of the BB or is it based on the theoretical value of a sphere?
We have not made any own studies to determine the drag coefficients of smooth spheres since that has been done in numerous scientific studies. The drag coefficients are calculated based on an empirical model for non-rotating spheres valid for the range of Reynolds numbers corresponding to the bullet velocities applicable to our rules in air at 20 degrees Celsius. The drag coefficient is calculated with eq. 22 in “Development of empirical models with high accuracy for estimation of drag coefficient of flow around a smooth sphere: An evolutionary approach”, R. Barati et.al. Journal of Powder Technology, vol 257, 2014. The Magnus effect is then assumed to reduce drag by 5 %.

Here's a rough explanation of our calculations:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GQSUv ... Frj6CCmv_A
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Runic » 28 Mar 2019, 09:10

Will the restriction of M249s to class 2 also affect those that are permanently mounted in vehicle turrets?
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Arradin » 01 Apr 2019, 10:08

We have had ALOT of feedback on this, so we just want to clarify something regarding on why this applies to M249 Para only:

M249 Para , IRL Difference:
The M249 is a light machine gun that can either feed the same Magazine as a M4/M16 or use belt fed ammunition. For the same ammunition, the one with the longer barrel will be more powerful as more powder burns Before the bullet leaves the barrel. This gives a higher muzzle velocity and a higher accuracy at range. What you sacrifice with the M249 Para, range, is made up with lighter weight, shorter lenght and ability to be used in Close quarters.

In-Game info:
No, You cannot take a M249 and para and just change the stock. You need to have the full barrel lenght also.
No, you cannot add a suppressor to add lenght.
These rules are not based on the above IRL facts, it is based on the number of ingame incidents and injuries related to machine guns in general at Close range. As M249 Para is the main and mostly used weapon at Berget by support gunners, this rule change is applied for balance. In the future, more guns will be added to these restrictions.

It is important that you understand that we make these Changes for safety reasons, nothing else.
You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Arradin » 01 Apr 2019, 10:09

Runic wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 09:10
Will the restriction of M249s to class 2 also affect those that are permanently mounted in vehicle turrets?
These restrictions only applies to the PARA version of M249, not the full version of the M249.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Jocke » 01 Apr 2019, 10:58

As the para is quite common weapon among players, would it be possible to send these revised rules to all players via email? This way there might not be so many incident in the chrono tent where players arrive with hot guns. There has to be some who have not noticed these changes, being not active on these forums or not following BE fb account.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Arradin » 01 Apr 2019, 11:06

Jocke wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 10:58
As the para is quite common weapon among players, would it be possible to send these revised rules to all players via email? This way there might not be so many incident in the chrono tent where players arrive with hot guns. There has to be some who have not noticed these changes, being not active on these forums or not following BE fb account.
As per the player agreements: everyone need to stay updated with any rules published by game start.

But i agree that it wouldnt hurt to add this to an uncoming email, i´ll see what i can do :)
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Smigel » 01 Apr 2019, 18:02

Arradin wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 10:09
Runic wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 09:10
Will the restriction of M249s to class 2 also affect those that are permanently mounted in vehicle turrets?
These restrictions only applies to the PARA version of M249, not the full version of the M249.
We have vehicle mounted with M249 PARA, without stock (no need in turret), so is that restricted to Class 2 too?

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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Arradin » 01 Apr 2019, 18:59

Smigel wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 18:02
Arradin wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 10:09
Runic wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 09:10
Will the restriction of M249s to class 2 also affect those that are permanently mounted in vehicle turrets?
These restrictions only applies to the PARA version of M249, not the full version of the M249.
We have vehicle mounted with M249 PARA, without stock (no need in turret), so is that restricted to Class 2 too?
Yes
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Rythm » 01 Apr 2019, 21:06

Arradin wrote:
01 Apr 2019, 10:08
it is based on the number of ingame incidents and injuries related to machine guns in general at Close range. As M249 Para is the main and mostly used weapon at Berget by support gunners, this rule change is applied for balance.
It is important that you understand that we make these Changes for safety reasons, nothing else.
That clarifys it a lot, thank you.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Archangel-17 » 02 Apr 2019, 13:39

Majk wrote:
14 Mar 2019, 20:43
M16 is fine for Class 4. A 556 DMR should be built for range. Do I need to clarify more?
https://i.imgur.com/UAQefQK.jpg

The replica above has been physically locked to safe-semi only, yet I'd like a confirmation if this would be allowed as an DMR at Berget. If it's not allowed, do you have guidelines on what requirements?
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Majk » 02 Apr 2019, 21:16

Archangel-17 wrote:
02 Apr 2019, 13:39
Majk wrote:
14 Mar 2019, 20:43
M16 is fine for Class 4. A 556 DMR should be built for range. Do I need to clarify more?
https://i.imgur.com/UAQefQK.jpg

The replica above has been physically locked to safe-semi only, yet I'd like a confirmation if this would be allowed as an DMR at Berget. If it's not allowed, do you have guidelines on what requirements?
Short barrels and compact buttstocks are for class 1 & 2. In this case I have to say no.
EDIT: This year its ok, we will update class 4 rules next year.

A m16 built for range should look something like this:
Image

A 556 DMR should fill these requirements:
- Full stock or any sniperstock.
- Full length barrel or longer.
- Bipod
- Scope
Last edited by Majk on 05 Apr 2019, 14:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Windi^ » 03 Apr 2019, 07:01

This is getting too difficult... I understand the long barrel requirement, but no collapsible stocks?

For example, real world MK12, a DMR rifle:
Image

Then for the machine guns:
MK46 LMG has a collapsible butt stock and a short barrel. G&P for example makes this airsoft version. So my guess this goes to class 2 also?
Image

I'm afraid that you have created now a system that broke the old system where everyone knew what weapon goes to what class. And some of us used the real steel versions as a reference to build a DMR (or any other weapon). Suddenly that's not OK anymore. For example DMR with a collapsible butt stock is not that short even with the stock in the shortest position, but now you have banned it from the DMR class. Some of us uses the collapsible stock because of the ergonomics; for me, the full length stock is just too long to use comfortably.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Arradin » 03 Apr 2019, 09:11

The issue, once again, is NOT real world vs airsoft to makie it as accurate as possible.

The issue is that people have abused Light short machine guns because it, in airsoft, doesnt have any drawbacks but you gain a ton of advantages. They are then running around with it as any assault rifle. The same applies for Sniper weapons, but is very obvious when it comes to the M249 Para, something you can see once on game site, its an overwhelmingly most popular machine gun

This has caused an increasing number of incidents and injuries over the past games.

Since it is impossible for us to enforce safety distances everywhere all the time, its much more logical to lower the power of those weapons, JUST as they are lowered IRL as a drawback of being shorter.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Windi^ » 03 Apr 2019, 09:21

Arradin wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 09:11
The issue, once again, is NOT real world vs airsoft to makie it as accurate as possible.

The issue is that people have abused Light short machine guns because it, in airsoft, doesnt have any drawbacks but you gain a ton of advantages. They are then running around with it as any assault rifle. The same applies for Sniper weapons, but is very obvious when it comes to the M249 Para, something you can see once on game site, its an overwhelmingly most popular machine gun

This has caused an increasing number of incidents and injuries over the past games.

Since it is impossible for us to enforce safety distances everywhere all the time, its much more logical to lower the power of those weapons, JUST as they are lowered IRL as a drawback of being shorter.
Yes yes, I can see this decision and to me, it makes sense. You guys know the best about these cases. I mentioned the MK46 since it's basically really close to Para model, so I guess this goes to class 2 also?

In the DMR I really don't agree with the stock decision. My statements are above. The gun length remains close to the same, it's not that you really loose the stock completely if you use the stock in the shortest position. The main portion of the length comes from the barrel length, as it should. Meaning maneuverability is more limited still.

Why I mention the real world, that since the rules to this day has been more like "mimics the real world counter part", people have build the weapons based on that. For the M249 Para change the problem is almost non existing, but for the DMR stock restrictions things change more. I hope that you would reconsider this, there is still time.

I'm writing this not because this rules affect me personally, but because I'd hope to clarify the situation for other players wondering the same cases. If you decide to go with this, I'm fine with it also. I just wanted to raise some issues you might have not thought.
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Re: IMPORTANT: Changes to Chrono and Weapon classes

Post by Arradin » 03 Apr 2019, 10:47

Windi^ wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 09:21
Arradin wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 09:11
The issue, once again, is NOT real world vs airsoft to makie it as accurate as possible.

The issue is that people have abused Light short machine guns because it, in airsoft, doesnt have any drawbacks but you gain a ton of advantages. They are then running around with it as any assault rifle. The same applies for Sniper weapons, but is very obvious when it comes to the M249 Para, something you can see once on game site, its an overwhelmingly most popular machine gun

This has caused an increasing number of incidents and injuries over the past games.

Since it is impossible for us to enforce safety distances everywhere all the time, its much more logical to lower the power of those weapons, JUST as they are lowered IRL as a drawback of being shorter.
Yes yes, I can see this decision and to me, it makes sense. You guys know the best about these cases. I mentioned the MK46 since it's basically really close to Para model, so I guess this goes to class 2 also?

In the DMR I really don't agree with the stock decision. My statements are above. The gun length remains close to the same, it's not that you really loose the stock completely if you use the stock in the shortest position. The main portion of the length comes from the barrel length, as it should. Meaning maneuverability is more limited still.

Why I mention the real world, that since the rules to this day has been more like "mimics the real world counter part", people have build the weapons based on that. For the M249 Para change the problem is almost non existing, but for the DMR stock restrictions things change more. I hope that you would reconsider this, there is still time.

I'm writing this not because this rules affect me personally, but because I'd hope to clarify the situation for other players wondering the same cases. If you decide to go with this, I'm fine with it also. I just wanted to raise some issues you might have not thought.
I quote myself from earlier: For now this applies to the M249Para only because its the #1 weapon for Support gunners with an overwhelming margain, but this restriction will be added to more weapons in the future.

In Plain English: If people try to use specific weapon versions to get class(/Power) advantages in airsoft which cause injuries and incidents beyond one time situations, then we will restrict those weapons. We are talking 90% of all support gunners last game used The para, and when it cause a spike in incidents, we have to act on it.

Imagine if we would allow people to re-build a .50 cal Beretta sniper rifle to run around with it as an M4 but with Class 6 Power, would you feel safe?
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