Player evaluation + & -

Topics and things concerning this game and your experience and memories.
Roska
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Post by Roska » 30 Jun 2008, 19:59

http://www.wcas.fi/B6/pic10.jpg
..And here you can see how well you could see them when they were properly worn, which was most of the time. Unfortunately we had bad armbands AGAIN (same problem as last year!!!) and they needed constant caretaking. In that picture above we were digging a hole in middle of our base in a hurry, so there was no time nor need to roll them open all the time (which is what we did in the woods all the time).

Hopefully next year we are able to make some better armbands :)

RRP Taksi
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Post by RRP Taksi » 30 Jun 2008, 21:16

The only thing that was ANUS was the catering at the party and the fact that i was obligated too leave early.

I have suggested that next year the armbands are made uniform and clear by the crew.. :idea:

Good: Spirit, players, terrain, weather, crew, combat, LARP, camp, game, storyline, missions, gamearea, friends, enemies, leadership (SRP) and so on.
Mmh..

B10 PL.CO 15S,2PL
B4-5-6-7-9 PL/CC (FFF/SRP command foreign and Swed) contact.
OPCR2-3

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Thinker
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Post by Thinker » 30 Jun 2008, 21:20

Well, my thoughts about Berget 6 as now, as a Mercs, is not good.

The most important leasons that should have been learned from Berget 5, and that the crew said on forums and in rules really hadnt been learned or implemented. As far as I see it the most important thing in a big event as berget 6 is safety, game mechanics and sanitational. If its a game thats good and works, safety feels high and the important parts of sanitational is there the event will be a success.

The safety and checking is a hugh failure, game mechanics also is a failure, but atleast in Conrad mercs camp there was toilets and water and it worked good enough, its bad that the containers for garbage dissapeared, but I would say it still was not really an issue, just more for berget crew to take care of after the game. Atleast we cleaned up inside and outside of our tent but I know many didnt. We left a big trashbag standing inside the tent. The problems with tents is mainly due to people dont pushing together, and taking way to much room in a tent, a game marshal in each base could have enforced this and made it a small or non problem. Now instead they tried to fix more tents.

Overall Safety: Hugh failure.
Checkin: This worked better than berget 5, and the armband ID number and face picture in a database was good, just really check the armbands next time, that theyre correct and have the number on. I wasnt checked at all, and I played engineer with two armband. There was no rules questions at all, and didnt have to show deadrag. Nice to get a tshirt, a WGC towel and a bottle of BBs. But it would have been way better to get issued armbands instead, would basically eliminate armbands issues in the event if their good.

Chronograping: Complete failure.
The chronos where I chrono didnt work, there was two. An AEG dont really differ between 68-93m/s over 5 shots unless something is really f*ck up, and not every AEG will have the same big fault. The chrono constanty was low. I have a chrono, always in in my vest, and chrono a lot, its a easy way to check everything is ok with mine and other aegs. And I have about the same speed on all chronos Ive tried AEGs on (Unreal Steel, Mercs and more). But on berget crews during checkin, total weirdness, and constantly low speed, with about 5-40m/s. No shitting. I still have the little notes. And I know that people where checking thru their aegs up in Mercs base because they got weird speeds and believed them. They thought their AEGs were damaged or faulty.

No checking of bullet weights. It was ok to shoot with a pre loaded mag, there was a bucket with a BB loader and 0.20 (I hope it was atleast), but you didnt have to use it. So, NO checking that chrono was done with correct ammo weight (0.20g), which really makes chrono something useless and timewasting. Chrono with 0.30 and a M140 would be ok. Use 0.20g or the speed can be ignored. If the crew there had taken a mag, or used Crew mags as far as possible, chrono would mean something now its a failure.

But then again, when you get weird bullet speeds and the crew using the chrono asks if the battery is charged full, you cant really expect them to full fill their duty... they dont know what theyre doing. He didnt know that different bullet weights affect the speeds.... Bloody great....

When you chrono, write down in a database, which player ID, which weapon and what speed. That way you can check back on it during random test. If you give them a note, that dont have to be fasten to the weapon "you just have to show it if asked", and you chrono three AEGs, well then the chrono point is failed. I could pick any note for any of my AEGs.

I did point out this all directly when I noticed it in main safe on wednesday morning. Dont think anything was done.

Random checks ingame:
There was one in mercs base, a couple of hours after gamestart, then no more, might be because I pointed out the flaw with the chronos, but seriously, this is basically the only real safety you can have. Its not hard to drive around and pick up some players heading back to respawn or base, take them down to main safe and check everything. Magasine capacity, chrono, no alcohol in breath, goggles, armband, deadrag and so forth, that its according to database and rules and then give them a hamburger or something and return them directly to their base, without having to spend time in respawn. Simple fast and crew can get some game feedback from players, and a general better safety feeling among the players.

This was ALL suggested after Berget 5. Organisers havnt learned their lesson here.

Suggestions:
If your going to give bullets away. Enforce a strick "only this ammo is ok, nothing else except for snipers", and have people choose between 0.20g/0.25g and that they can buy extra bottles. Enforce bio ammo, it will make the land owners happier and players will understand it better. And if someone doesnt use correct ammo, take them offgame and make them stay in the safezone or send them home.

Game mechanics: Failure
Respawn. Should be marked on maps. Wasnt. BAD. Clock in respawn, not in mercs respawn north of their base. Atleast I couldnt find any.

Permanent game master / crew in base. Didnt exist as far as I can tell, atleast not in Mercs base. Same happened during B5 in swedish base. Organisers not learned anything here. Set up a small crew tent in each base, with mobile phone and so forth. This will improve contact with the commanders, and give crew a better feeling how the players feel and will make problems faster and easier to solve. Will also improve crew reaction time if something is crew operated, and make information flow to players way much better. Have a billboard outside the tent with game information, updates and so forth. If the game start or end need to be delayed a gashorn blower is fast an easy to use, and since there is a tent in every major base, information flow to players would be fast. Now it was non existent.

Trustees: If your going to have them, make it people that Crew trust, and make them spread out. Where there any in Mercs side? The people I talked with that should have been according to info couldnt get a trustee card from crew in main safezone. There was missuse of trustees, that overlooked their own sides fault and penalised enemies. Not good.

Being told there is a 1.5h delay when requesting artillery support isnt good. Was generally faster but anyway.

Radio communication: Way better that people was issued radios and didnt have to rent them as on B5, but bad that the monophones was crap. As far as I can tell, about 40% of them failed before saturday. But there was radios atleast, but not enough, due to failure. The repeater that Mercs had access to sucked. Dont know where it was, but it was always better to try and use other people to relay or simple direct coms. As I said dont know where it was, but it probably would been better on the top of himmelsberget, or maybe Bräntberget.

Story and missions, dont really have much to say about them, as always could have been more, but I know its hard to figure out. Convoy operations feels like a big lie but I really wasnt expecting much from berget events in this aspect. I'm dissapointed, a little on Mercs command and mainly Mercs players, feels that a few took all the burden of command and duties others was ignorant, didnt care and was only there for them self and to do the fun stuff.
I personally wont involve myself and try to help organise a side anymore, not only on berget event but any event, it just punishes you during the game while the other players have fun, If I ever attending a beregt event (highly unlikely) next time I will happily ignore every planing before and if its really bad during the game my team will problaby "go rambo", because it seems like the only way to accually have fun on these events. If youre one of the few that people can reach and you following orders it only makes them to give you the duties noone else will.



There is a lot more, but I try to take mercs good or bad specific in another post. This is long enough and its more important that the above is taken care of than anything else.


Myself and more has been reinforced in our belief that Berget Events really dont think the game is important and focus on making it a great experience, we got the feeling that more energy and planning is focused on the safezone and getting shops there, beerparty and a other unimportant things than what make an airsoft big game good. There was a lot of players that I talked to that said they wont be comming back, and that isnt good, but as far as I can tell a lot of players dont spend hundreds of euro, and drive thousands of kilometers to enjoy a beerparty, hang in the safezone shops and so forth.

I'm and airsofter, I like to play a good airsoft milsim game or scenario, so I guess berget events games isnt really made for me.
This space intentionally left blank

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Eldoriath
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Post by Eldoriath » 01 Jul 2008, 01:28

Thinker:
I have to agree strongly on the bio-deg. When i asked around in the shops, few had bio-degs. And if they had, they only had 0.20, which is useless when i use 0.25 for almost all my weapons. Now i know that it does exist 0.25 bio-degs, i had bought 2 bags before the event and expected that i could buy more at place.

I strongly promote bio-deg. And don't come saying anything about them being more expensive. Cause if more start buying them, they will become cheaper. And besides: The BBs is just a minor cost compared to the money you throw on your gear, weapons and upgrades.
B5. Russia.
OC2. Militia.
B6. NATO, Bravo coy, 3rd Plt commander
B7. Milos tigers, Sibiria coy, 3rd Plt commander
B8. Poldavian Psy-Ops, Plt commander
B9. UN, Coy commander

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Pampster
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Post by Pampster » 01 Jul 2008, 06:16

Well her goes
++ to oure russian commander Lynx We love you!!
+Our russian comrades in Charli comp
+that we got all our speciall missions
+funny memoris
+water and topilets in bases
+Game area


-enemy not taking hits
-Gm holding teams back
-food att beer party suck
-beer at beer party please more brands then Piss blå
-base areas
-Food in main safe we paid for garbidsh that food was not food

Might add more later on.

Lexa
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Post by Lexa » 01 Jul 2008, 08:11

Good

- SRP
- NATO (all members i talked with were great)
- Off game things (toilets/water/trash) worked nicely
- GM actions, when they were informed of incidents

Bad
-game was too much a LARP compared to Airsoft, little LARP is ok in my opinion, but this time it went little over

- existance of a hot gun, i was personally shot from about 15m and the ball got stuck inside my skin and required a doctor to clean the wound and take the ball out of my face, and those that dont believe me, trust me theres like 50 pictures that was taken of the wound with the ball

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Kane
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Post by Kane » 01 Jul 2008, 08:58

Good
1. The Crew did a great job and worked their asses off during the entire game. The best organized game so far.
2. Great interaction (LARP) between many players. More of that won't hurt the airsoft hobby. The MilSim-players should also like this since it makes the whole thing more realistic.
3. Extremely little cheeting. Perhaps because of the trustee-system, and the fact that players knew about it.
4. I had great fun for 4 days and fired about 20 bb's on the entire game.

Bad
1. Both Nato and UN players refused to interact with the "poor villagers". The only thing they did was pointing guns at the unarmed civilians and threatened to shoot them. Were there orders to act like that, were they afraid (in-game) of the virus or did they just not like the idea of a little roleplaying?
Kane, Plastic Dragoons
---------------------------
B1- Crew/ russian soldier
B2- Crew/ Russian Radio Officer
B3- Crew/ Russian Spetsnaz Recon
B4- Rebel soldier
B6- Bandit
B7- Bashir City Police
B8- SRG
B9- Ivanchuk's Export & Import

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waffelke
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Post by waffelke » 01 Jul 2008, 10:58

Kane wrote:Good
1. The Crew did a great job and worked their asses off during the entire game. The best organized game so far.
2. Great interaction (LARP) between many players. More of that won't hurt the airsoft hobby. The MilSim-players should also like this since it makes the whole thing more realistic.
3. Extremely little cheeting. Perhaps because of the trustee-system, and the fact that players knew about it.
4. I had great fun for 4 days and fired about 20 bb's on the entire game.

Bad
1. Both Nato and UN players refused to interact with the "poor villagers". The only thing they did was pointing guns at the unarmed civilians and threatened to shoot them. Were there orders to act like that, were they afraid (in-game) of the virus or did they just not like the idea of a little roleplaying?


they schot me 4 times :cry:

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Windi^
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Post by Windi^ » 01 Jul 2008, 11:31

I try to gather some of my thoughts.

Good:
-Berget crew had learned many lessons from B5
-Toilets, water, electricity and tents
-Quick response by GM's if needed
-Over all atmosphere
-LARP elements
-Other players

To be improved:
-Those mo****fu***** maps! You can't call those black and white piece of crap maps. Really. This same thing was an issue in B5.

I will add more if I can remember something. These was my initial impressions.
B5, FFF Turku-2 Squad leader
B6, SRP Snake 1-0 Platoon leader
B7, SRP Bull 1-0 Platoon leader
B8, Civilian, 6mm merc
B9, UN, 6mm Company, 1st PLT leader
B10, Zanzia, Delta plt, Link officer
B12, Yuri Orlov Mercenaries
B14, NAF HQ Intel S2
B15, NAF HQ Intel S2
B16, UPIR HQ QRF
B17, GFM ODA3

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Tomik99_SVK
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Post by Tomik99_SVK » 01 Jul 2008, 12:16

beast wrote: The marshalls were simply standing behind the corners and I had to call them to see.
I think there must be at least one marshall in each base every time.
This is right. Marshal must be very close to all main areas off batle.... Especially ares where is easy to say that there will be fight as camps are... Let he can see and make some solutions for problems....
beast wrote: Also during the last mass attack of Nato forces against Mercs base, there have been a lot of discussions, some really hard, but the marshall arrived after a lot of time, when everything was already finished.
Yeah you are right. Some really hard discusion..... But think about reason... About really reason.... Last atack to Mercs was great. We have no chance to make serious resist against whole NATO forces. So why people make atack on us, as they did it???? At the moment of atack was in Mercs camp aprox 30 peoples together...... No chance for us to do anything.... But we get some ID numbers and move it to responsibles..... I don`t wanna make some flame. I am just totally dissapointed from some things which happens especially during this part of game.
We saw medics.... They healing in one moment more than one wounded man. I saw on my own eys as they make healing behind our tent for 6 peoples. Also peoples (wounded) just walk to medic and he just tuch on their and they are health.... No bandages, no spending 2 minutes with wounded no carying wounded by other peoples. And yeah we talk with peoples about that and they say "WE DON`T KNOW HOW IT WORKS SO SORRY FOR THAT"..... They are lazy to read rules.... Dissapointing if this happen last day of battles.... Also we atack from back of NATO from left side and shoting peoples from back and they think it is friendly fire so they not to need take hits..... Shooting INTO the tents..... And they say that theyr comander told them shot into tents. And all of this happens in last NATO atack to us in few minutes and all of this I saw in left side off battle where mainly italian fighted. But I don`t wanna make it generally of course. Many people taking hits and play fair. It is just geografic orientation of field:) And one more thing. At the final of thos battle was all camp blowed up by artilery but it have no effekt to only one NATO soldier... Why???? No one die by artilery or rocket atack..... Next small thing.... I give a Knife Kill to 10-15 wounded peoples in the same are and time and situation and no one left to respawn.... After I get information that NATO have movable respawn..... Is that true? Is that ok if NATO can build respawn everywhere thay want and close to battle zone?

Generally was whole B6 much more better organized and prepared than B5. Organizers did much better job than before. During game I meet just few problems with some players oposite but generally was everything more less standard. Biggiest problems are always made by newbies as everywhere in life. After the time I can say game was OK.

But next time clear WCs every day PLEASE!

And last funny thing to end? We atacked from behind the SRP base. The situation with 2 pick-up cars. We was shot to small pieces by much more SRP members than we have and it is ok. But after they eliminate us, they comes from our front and back in one moment and shot against own peoples (friendly fire) and one of them have BB inside his upper lip. We had reaal medic and he take the BB out but after they send us to remeasure guns. It is their right and it is ok but strong weapon which lost BB in the face of SRP player was not in our side but in their own lines :o
Of course we all passed remeasurement without any problems with fps.

CAT
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Post by CAT » 01 Jul 2008, 14:21

The UN was supposed to be 15% of the players. Out of 1200 thats approx 180 soldiers. We got 73. Of those 73 only 30-35 showed up. To make things worse another 8-10 went home or changed sides during the game. We didn't have any vehicles (because the players supposed to bring them never came), and even crew decided to launch an attack against us with 3 tanks.

We had a really hard time just existing. Many of my UN friends felt really abandoned by crew. But I don't think that we can blame crew for everything. We just had a lot of bad luck.

And those complaining about the UN... Please tell us how we could have made it any better. We had to defend our base (and thus make the game intresting for our opponents), send out squads on missions and then also try to keep an eye out for the civilians. We had 30 people for all that, and later only 20.

+ UN, we did our best
+ Crew. Thinking about how few we were you really war supportive at the end.
+ The Danish team C-4, NATO. You really did everything to ensure this "smurf" safety back to the UN base.

- Armbands. It is a big difference betveen having a 11 cm wide fabric on a table and having a 11 cm wide armband.
- General CREW. If Crew have opinions about how UN plays its politics, tell us. I don't speak "Shoot-full-auto-with-a-whole-squad-on-a-lone-UN-soldier-standing-on-a-open-road-to-teach-them-a-lesson"
Berget 6: UN - Wear cammo, smurf style

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beast
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Post by beast » 01 Jul 2008, 14:27

Tomik99_SVK wrote:
beast wrote: The marshalls were simply standing behind the corners and I had to call them to see.
I think there must be at least one marshall in each base every time.
This is right. Marshal must be very close to all main areas off batle.... Especially ares where is easy to say that there will be fight as camps are... Let he can see and make some solutions for problems....
beast wrote: Also during the last mass attack of Nato forces against Mercs base, there have been a lot of discussions, some really hard, but the marshall arrived after a lot of time, when everything was already finished.
Yeah you are right. Some really hard discusion..... But think about reason... About really reason.... Last atack to Mercs was great. We have no chance to make serious resist against whole NATO forces. So why people make atack on us, as they did it???? At the moment of atack was in Mercs camp aprox 30 peoples together...... No chance for us to do anything.... But we get some ID numbers and move it to responsibles..... I don`t wanna make some flame. I am just totally dissapointed from some things which happens especially during this part of game.
We saw medics.... They healing in one moment more than one wounded man. I saw on my own eys as they make healing behind our tent for 6 peoples. Also peoples (wounded) just walk to medic and he just tuch on their and they are health.... No bandages, no spending 2 minutes with wounded no carying wounded by other peoples. And yeah we talk with peoples about that and they say "WE DON`T KNOW HOW IT WORKS SO SORRY FOR THAT"..... They are lazy to read rules.... Dissapointing if this happen last day of battles.... Also we atack from back of NATO from left side and shoting peoples from back and they think it is friendly fire so they not to need take hits..... Shooting INTO the tents..... And they say that theyr comander told them shot into tents. And all of this happens in last NATO atack to us in few minutes and all of this I saw in left side off battle where mainly italian fighted. But I don`t wanna make it generally of course. Many people taking hits and play fair. It is just geografic orientation of field:) And one more thing. At the final of thos battle was all camp blowed up by artilery but it have no effekt to only one NATO soldier... Why???? No one die by artilery or rocket atack..... Next small thing.... I give a Knife Kill to 10-15 wounded peoples in the same are and time and situation and no one left to respawn.... After I get information that NATO have movable respawn..... Is that true? Is that ok if NATO can build respawn everywhere thay want and close to battle zone?

Generally was whole B6 much more better organized and prepared than B5. Organizers did much better job than before. During game I meet just few problems with some players oposite but generally was everything more less standard. Biggiest problems are always made by newbies as everywhere in life. After the time I can say game was OK.

But next time clear WCs every day PLEASE!

And last funny thing to end? We atacked from behind the SRP base. The situation with 2 pick-up cars. We was shot to small pieces by much more SRP members than we have and it is ok. But after they eliminate us, they comes from our front and back in one moment and shot against own peoples (friendly fire) and one of them have BB inside his upper lip. We had reaal medic and he take the BB out but after they send us to remeasure guns. It is their right and it is ok but strong weapon which lost BB in the face of SRP player was not in our side but in their own lines :o
Of course we all passed remeasurement without any problems with fps.
Thanks for your point of wiev, I would like to tell what happened to avoid any bad interpretation.

We didn't know how many resistance we were going to find in your camp. My platoon (I think everybody involved in the operation) was surprised about the easy way we conquered your base. During the party I've talked with a lot of Mercs and they told me that the most part of you were attacking SRP base. I think our Intelligence has worked fine in this case 'cause it was the right moment to attack.

The episode you are referering is about my platoon and some huge guys from east europe. I didn't see with my eyes what happened to start a discussion, but I was the guy who was trying to calm down everybody.
This is our version: Our team leader has seen one of your man (the huge one) standing on the entrance of his tent, aiming his gun and wearing glasses. He had obviusly opened fire against him.

This guy was really disappointed because he said that the rules doesn't allows anybody to shoot to tents from outside, or viceversa.
My team leader was disappointed beacuse he said that this man was aiming his gun so he was a threat.
I didn't see the begin of discussion too, it seems that your man has pull with his hands our team leader and after that the discussion has become really hot. Adrealine was really at the top in everybody and unfortunally the discussion level was more and more degrading.

I personally believe my team leader because I know him, I think it's normal,
but I'm sorry about this situation for both side. In any case I A MARSHALL SHOULD BE EVERYTIME PRESENT TO AVOID THIS CASE OF SITUATION, beacuse I think that in thise case everybody had his reasons.

Our platoon has played in a really professional way, we really act the role and everybody was strictly instructed about the rules. I've personally made the translation of all the rules for my club, and during the trip we have repeated it for all time.

Personally while we were approaching the tents, I was hit by a single bullet and I've made a nice backward jump (my camel bag is gone...) to simulate the hit. One of our men dragged me some meters away and our medic have applied me the white band. This was just to tell how we were immerged in the game.
And they say that theyr comander told them shot into tents.
About us (INDIA 2), nobody order us that this was allowed, and nobody has done it. I know only that one of us has entered in one tents where he found 3 guys and he told them they were prisoners without opening fire.
After I get information that NATO have movable respawn
We never heard about this thing, our respawn point was the big fan over our base. When we were far out of our base, if someone dead, he had to get there no matter how far it was.

PLEASE IN B7 PUT AT LEAST 1 MARSHALL IN EVERY BASE/RESPAWN POINT, WHO STAYS THERE EVERYTIME.
B6 Convoy Operations ->Nato India II
B10 Final Strike -> 3° Ranger Archer 4
B11 Iron Walls -> SFODU Hotel 9
B12 Lords of War -> CGT Ranger Bravo 4
B13 Siege of Krasnovo -> CGT Ranger
B14 Black Gold -> Ranger
B15 Thunder Run -> FINBAT wolverine 8

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Dre@mz
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Post by Dre@mz » 01 Jul 2008, 14:58

Kane wrote: ...
Bad
1. Both Nato and UN players refused to interact with the "poor villagers". The only thing they did was pointing guns at the unarmed civilians and threatened to shoot them. Were there orders to act like that, were they afraid (in-game) of the virus or did they just not like the idea of a little roleplaying?
The UN had only two rules:

- only shoot when shooted first (and lots of times this didn't happen);
- staying away from the civillians, cause they could be infected;

So... yes, we had orders to shoot civillians if they tried to touch us. The only thing I really enjoyed at B6 was the roleplay from the civillians... really good job, all of them!

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Tiger_1
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Post by Tiger_1 » 01 Jul 2008, 15:04

Oscar company sett up a casualty collection point on the far end of the Merc base. Here 3 medics worked with healing all of the wounded that other players carried in. They only healed one player at a time each (I know, I was one of the guys down ;)). We had a NATO soldier walk in on his own, saying he was shot, and he thought this was a respawn. I guess a lot of places people dont use casualty collection points in games. We told him that if he was dead, this was the wrong place, and he walkt of to look for a respawn point (we could at this time use both SRP and NATO respawn) I dont know if our casualty collection point was the basis for the "mobile spawn" story, but I can promis you that NO person was healed there in under 2 min, or reaspawnd. They were ALL treated within the bleedout time and had bandaged put on them.
"go to your God like a soldier!"

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Eldoriath
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Post by Eldoriath » 01 Jul 2008, 15:04

About the NATO "creating" more convienient respawns;
You might think about when the NATO were allowed to respawn at the SRPs respawn. This was allowed to do as long as the SRP considered us as friends.
This was allowed to do according to berget crew on the condition that the SRP allowed it.
B5. Russia.
OC2. Militia.
B6. NATO, Bravo coy, 3rd Plt commander
B7. Milos tigers, Sibiria coy, 3rd Plt commander
B8. Poldavian Psy-Ops, Plt commander
B9. UN, Coy commander

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