How did the camo restriction work?

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 8.

Did you think that OD and Desert restriction worked?

Yes it was much more less friendly fire!
101
48%
Yes but skip the armband for next year!
53
25%
No, it was not good.
55
26%
 
Total votes: 209

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MrMedic
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Post by MrMedic » 24 Jun 2010, 23:19

Then there's the civilians. All fine and well, but the mercenaries are sorta annoying, as you can't always tell who's currently on your side and who's not. In the end battle, there were mercs who were fighting for us and mercs who were against us, all of course wearing the same civilian armband. Yeah, pick your targets, don't shoot friendlies! My suggestion: civilian mercenaries wear the armband of the current faction they are fighting for. Maybe even with some insignia showing that they are mercs, like the letter "M" on the armband.
Actually all civilians, Mercs or not, had strict orders not to join the Poldavian side. That meant that the only civilians fighting along the pollies where undercover PsyOps, and even though I would like nothing better than to have them wear a special armband I doubt if they will agree to the idea. We tried to distinguish trustworthy civilians by turning the armbands white side up but PsyOps caught on to that in no time and did the same to their armbands.

However, the Sixth Mercs, who made up almost half of the civilians, all wore co-ordinated uniforms (black top, OD trousers) as well as the Sixth Mercs insignia, so if anything we should be the easiest force of all to recognize.
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turret
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Post by turret » 26 Jun 2010, 23:37

really bad idea.
lots of friendly fire. (stupid people wont change even with camo color)

+ Desert isnt a camouflage in a forest environment !! :)
Really unbalanced decision for the game.

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Post by Garga » 27 Jun 2010, 19:10

I totally disagree with previous post. Light colored camos are NOT only desert ones. So it is a matter of choice after all.
Do not tread this as a offense or something like it. Just conversation.

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Post by Ukkolzi » 27 Jun 2010, 21:28

MrMedic,
I stand corrected. Although the PsyOps must have brought a healthy dose of paranoia to the "real" civilians and some very interesting situations, I feel that in combat it just sucks to have people with one type of armband on both sides, uniformed or not. Well, can't really blame anyone, as it was all OK by the rules. The PsyOps dudes probably accepted the risks the moment they decided to join the final fight wearing civilian clothes & armbands...

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Post by grasulas » 28 Jun 2010, 12:07

It was a good game play if any psyops captured in civilian clothes had his civ arm band confiscated after execution, this way denying him the possibility to infiltrate again as a civilian, just my 2 cents idea.

I will really like to see psyops div on the next year, I had only one mission as a civilian, no more than 3 hours but it was a blast.. Even without killing any one the tension and the idea that someone will realize that I’m an enemy was great play it self.
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Post by affe » 28 Jun 2010, 12:19

The only real bad cammo issue I experienced was when people put on rain ponchos, wich ofcourse hidd their armbands.

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Post by turret » 28 Jun 2010, 13:14

Garga wrote:Do not tread this as a offense or something like it. Just conversation.
no problem at all, mate. ;)
Every opinion has a right to be exposed.


However, BE specified desert camo to be used in NAF not light colored...
That is my point.
In a forest, you have to use forest camo wether from Russia, France, Sweden or wherever; desert camo isnt a proof of success. :)

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Post by Panzergraf » 28 Jun 2010, 14:00

BE did specify Multicam as a NAF-pattern, and this does work in woodland to some extent.
Then there's the civilians. All fine and well, but the mercenaries are sorta annoying, as you can't always tell who's currently on your side and who's not. In the end battle, there were mercs who were fighting for us and mercs who were against us, all of course wearing the same civilian armband. Yeah, pick your targets, don't shoot friendlies! My suggestion: civilian mercenaries wear the armband of the current faction they are fighting for. Maybe even with some insignia showing that they are mercs, like the letter "M" on the armband.
This I agree with 100%
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Post by ReconProG » 28 Jun 2010, 19:57

turret wrote:However, BE specified desert camo to be used in NAF not light colored...
Your statement isn't entirely correct. Light patterns, no matter desert camo or not, were allowed for use by NAF.
The rules wrote:- Desert Style: The focus is that the pattern is primarily tan/sand/lighter colors. There must be a pattern (i.e. Plain Khaki is not acceptable). Some examples are: M90 Ökenkammo, Desert Marpat, ACU, Multicam, Three color desert (DCU), Six color desert, Desert DPM, DDPCU (Desert Auscam)

BE provided people with the choice of functionality over the Gucci factor. However, most people didn't (have the oportunity to ) take advantage of the chance to use a pattern that is better in WL environment than the desert cammies. In the end, choosing a desert pattern was a matter of personal choice and not of a rules regulation.
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Post by freno » 28 Jun 2010, 20:00

grasulas wrote:It was a good game play if any psyops captured in civilian clothes had his civ arm band confiscated after execution, this way denying him the possibility to infiltrate again as a civilian, just my 2 cents idea.

I will really like to see psyops div on the next year, I had only one mission as a civilian, no more than 3 hours but it was a blast.. Even without killing any one the tension and the idea that someone will realize that I’m an enemy was great play it self.
Use our civ-armband only once should be at own choice. When your undercover is ruined, you´ll better choose other to bother after respawn! I hope for next year (with PSYOPS), that BE alow us to use ALL uniforms and armbands! THAT IS PSYOPS!!!
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Post by [JH]crazydog » 28 Jun 2010, 20:52

+1

if necessary, limit number of undercover-staff

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Post by Bilich » 28 Jun 2010, 20:54

freno wrote: I hope for next year (with PSYOPS), that BE alow us to use ALL uniforms and armbands! THAT IS PSYOPS!!!
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Post by Pete » 04 Jul 2010, 09:41

Camo-restriction worked in the separation of the opposing forces issue, if you really followed it. Our company used very resticted code of the rule (just one camo type allowed) and this resulted in a very coherent fighting force in appearance.

In game effect, in some cases the lighter camos could be seen somewhat more easily. BUT, a good player was also in this game a good player whether he/she wore a darker or lighter camo. Movement and exposure are the primary giveaways, not the color of your clothes. Using the surroundings and cover, and crouching & hugging the turf more, helps. If you fight your head held high, it does not matter which camo you use. Also, as we had other camos in the other companies, for instance the Italian woodland vegetata which was very similar in look to the camos used by NAF, we spotted armbands not just the color of camos.

And, by the way, in wet surroundings like this year, darker colored camos became black lumps which are actually even more unnatural in nature than lighter colored patches.
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Post by JuX » 15 Jul 2010, 14:09

Out of curiosity been exploring berget forum, don't know how your games operate in the field, but desert camo sounds ridiculous in the woods, im sure US marines have different camoflages at there disposal.

In real life opposing armies may wear similar camoflages, that is why command structure needs to make troops aware about friendly presence in the area, also armies always use codes to identify friendlies. (example. Identify : Thunder! response : Flash!), these codes are also frequently changed so enemies cant take advantage of it so easy.

Usage of codes is key and good reason why electronic warfare and espionage is performed.

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Post by freno » 15 Jul 2010, 15:10

JuX wrote:
Usage of codes is key and good reason why electronic warfare and espionage is performed.
That doesn´t work either! But it´s the best way!
I think friendly-fire is a part of the game! But at the end, the camo should fit the environment. Every military group uses today the best camo they can get for a special mission!
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