Feedback - BAVS

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 17
User avatar
Berget-events
Berget Crew & Site Admin
Berget Crew & Site Admin
Posts: 1975
Joined: 30 Jan 2006, 21:22
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Feedback - BAVS

Post by Berget-events » 29 Jun 2019, 12:12

Please give us your feedback on the BAVS, and how it can be improved.
Berget-events

Please send general questions to:
info@berget-events.com

Please send payment questions to:
payment@berget-events.com

Ramgeval
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 2
Joined: 03 Nov 2018, 13:16

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Ramgeval » 29 Jun 2019, 13:56

Why is there no safety on the at, everytime you strap it on your back it fires. Also how can you hit your own car if you standing next to it while aiming at a car 50 meters away.

Arginj
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: 24 Apr 2016, 19:55
Location: Stockholm

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Arginj » 29 Jun 2019, 15:21

The AT4 fires if close enough to a transmitting radio. Huge problem.
B14: UPIR Mech (Loki)
B15: UPIR Mech (Loki)
B16: UPIR Mech (Eagle 2-3)
B17: GFM Mech (Romeo)
B18: ?

User avatar
Grape
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2013, 14:52

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Grape » 30 Jun 2019, 01:21

Ramgeval wrote:
29 Jun 2019, 13:56
Why is there no safety on the at, everytime you strap it on your back it fires.
The original idea was that the user could choose to either carry it "unloaded" on his back or "loaded" in his arms, this was supposed to nerf it a bit by making it a bit slower to use and force the user to plan his attacks.
Sadly the users didn't really agree and many modified their AT4's with makeshift covers for the trigger. This forced us to install a protection for the trigger on all AT4's. It's still not intended to be carried loaded.

We have talked about adding a safety that could be engaged/disengaged by pushing the reload-button on a loaded AT4 and we will look into it for the next software update, hopefully together with some other nice features.
Ramgeval wrote:
29 Jun 2019, 13:56
Also how can you hit your own car if you standing next to it while aiming at a car 50 meters away.
The AT4 uses IR-light to communicate between the AT4 and the receiver. To achieve a respectable range we have installed a rather powerful LED, this power sadly comes with some bad effects, one of them is that the lens scatters some of the light and creates a short range "shotgun" effect together with the main "beam", this shotgun beam can be reflected on things like carwindows and hit vehicles beside the user.
Arginj wrote:
29 Jun 2019, 15:21
The AT4 fires if close enough to a transmitting radio. Huge problem.
This is actually very interesting and nothing I have heard about before, how powerful are your radio and which frequencies did you use.


Thank you all for the feedback!

This is not an official statement from BE, it's just a comment from a developer and builder of the system.
Borduria Prevails

B7 Doctor / BAVS Crew
B8 Poldavian / BAVS Crew
B9 Driver, Ivanchuk Exports and Import / BAVS Crew
B10 BAVS Crew
B11 Tractor Mechanic / BAVS Crew
B12 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B13 Poldavian Officer / BAVS Crew
B14 BAVS Crew
B15 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B16 ??? / BAVS Crew

User avatar
Jöntti
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
Posts: 28
Joined: 04 Oct 2010, 14:05
Location: Turku, Finland
Contact:

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Jöntti » 30 Jun 2019, 08:47

https://youtu.be/BeWBTNzDHT4

Video from old B14 which demonstrates the radio firing. Using baofeng UV-5R in 5W and somewhere 136-155Mhz although it didn't matter which frequency you used.
B9, 10, 11, 13
B14 NAF Ranger & Reconnance unit, Ehasa motorized QRF squad
Battelgroup: Parola, Gamemaster
B15 NAF FINBAT Mech Coy, Ehasa motorized squad Lynx 5
Battlegroup 17 - The Code, Gamemaster
Battlegroup 18, Gamemaster

Finnish team/organization Ehasa member

Arginj
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: 24 Apr 2016, 19:55
Location: Stockholm

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Arginj » 30 Jun 2019, 10:51

Grape wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 01:21
Arginj wrote:
29 Jun 2019, 15:21
The AT4 fires if close enough to a transmitting radio. Huge problem.
This is actually very interesting and nothing I have heard about before, how powerful are your radio and which frequencies did you use.
I use a TRI PRC-148 set to 1 W (low setting). I used frequency 155.200 if I remember correctly. Might have been 157.400 as well, but somewhere around those frequencies.
B14: UPIR Mech (Loki)
B15: UPIR Mech (Loki)
B16: UPIR Mech (Eagle 2-3)
B17: GFM Mech (Romeo)
B18: ?

Havocboy
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 3
Joined: 07 Jul 2014, 00:22

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Havocboy » 30 Jun 2019, 13:30

There should be some loud noise when using the BAVS units. Or something else to give away your position.
An at4/carlgustav etc isnt exactly silent when used.

User avatar
Grape
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2013, 14:52

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Grape » 30 Jun 2019, 15:19

Arginj wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 10:51
I use a TRI PRC-148 set to 1 W (low setting). I used frequency 155.200 if I remember correctly. Might have been 157.400 as well, but somewhere around those frequencies.
Jöntti wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 08:47
https://youtu.be/BeWBTNzDHT4
Video from old B14 which demonstrates the radio firing. Using baofeng UV-5R in 5W and somewhere 136-155Mhz although it didn't matter which frequency you used.
Thank you for the information, we will look into this, it should hopefully be a pretty simple fix. It is a bit weird that we hasn't heard about this earlier...
Thanks again and I hope this issue didn't ruin the game for you guys!
Havocboy wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 13:30
There should be some loud noise when using the BAVS units. Or something else to give away your position.
An at4/carlgustav etc isnt exactly silent when used.
The AT4 does make a sound, it is just kind of hard to make it loud enough to be heard when you are 50m+ away.
I have a suggestion that I have been thinking about for a couple of years now but hasn't had the chance to implement. I will try to explain it as well as I can and please tell me what you think.

Alternative 1A - Easier to implement
The plan is to add a simulated "lock on" function.
The AT4 will no longer fire as soon as you push the button, instead you will have to hold the firebutton down and track the target for a random time between 3-6 seconds (the time is random to force the shooter to actually track the target, this times will have to be tested and adjusted to see what works in practice). During this tracking mode, the summer will sound and a red LED will light up inside the lens-tube. The light is inteded to help warn the target vehicle and the sound is intended to alert any infantry nearby.
When the timer has elapsed the AT4 will fire.

Alternative 1B - Harder to implement
1B is quite similar to 1A but it also lights up the LED's on the targets receiver and alerts the target with a warning sound (for example a high frequency beeping) from the targets siren.
This is not just a nerf of the AT4 but it also gives the shooter the ability to check that the target is within range of the weapon.



This is not an official statement from BE, it's just a comment from a developer and builder of the system.
Borduria Prevails

B7 Doctor / BAVS Crew
B8 Poldavian / BAVS Crew
B9 Driver, Ivanchuk Exports and Import / BAVS Crew
B10 BAVS Crew
B11 Tractor Mechanic / BAVS Crew
B12 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B13 Poldavian Officer / BAVS Crew
B14 BAVS Crew
B15 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B16 ??? / BAVS Crew

Saper39
Private
Private
Posts: 10
Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 13:06

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Saper39 » 01 Jul 2019, 23:05

It would be great to make the BAVS receiver and the control box "undisconnectable" during the game. I mean the RJ-45 connector sealed by the crew.
We have had several incidents in field with red vehicles, that even after shooting 8 shots directly at the receiver (in-game) nothing happend and the next shot on a vehicle next to it was directly a correct hit.
So, I suspect some could disconnect the RG-45 connector during the engagement and connecting it back after the fight, so it keep working normally and a test shot shows system is working correctly. I will also forward this info th BE-crew once I've got back home to my video recordings and photo data

ferdie
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 2
Joined: 25 May 2013, 07:09
Location: Norway

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by ferdie » 02 Jul 2019, 18:24

as a driver i would like to have some sort of notification on low battery or sensor error, and a green led for system on.
you almost need a flashligt to se the display in a dark car during daytime.
Berget 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16

User avatar
Grape
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2013, 14:52

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Grape » 02 Jul 2019, 20:04

Saper39 wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 23:05
It would be great to make the BAVS receiver and the control box "undisconnectable" during the game. I mean the RJ-45 connector sealed by the crew.
I understand that it is frustrating, but I personally believe in Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

It is easy to forget to connect your battery, to reset your receiver after respawn or accidently disconnect your sensor. If a player wants to cheat he or she will find a way to do it. It is, how ever, up to us to make it as easy as possible for players to follow the rules. And I realize that there are some "room for improvement". Currently we have the red flashing heartbeat LED's on the sensor board. If you see a vehicle without a flashing sensor, please kindly remind them to turn their receiver on.
ferdie wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 18:24
as a driver i would like to have some sort of notification on low battery or sensor error, and a green led for system on.
you almost need a flashligt to se the display in a dark car during daytime.
A low battery notification would be nice but it would be very hard to accomplish since the batteries are supplied by the players, my advice would be to use one of the Lipo warning circuits.
A notification for a sensor error on the receiving box is also hard to achieve with the current hardware but the heartbeat LED on the sensor kinda fills that function.
We will look into the possibility to add a status LED on the box, we have already discussed having the blinking frequency of the heartbeat (on the sensor) increase the less health the vehicle has left, and mirroring this frequency on the receiver-box would be pretty neat.

But in the end it's all up to what the GM's want, we will bring it up.

Thank you both for your feedback, it is very valuable!

This is not an official statement from BE, it's just a comment from a developer and builder of the system.
Borduria Prevails

B7 Doctor / BAVS Crew
B8 Poldavian / BAVS Crew
B9 Driver, Ivanchuk Exports and Import / BAVS Crew
B10 BAVS Crew
B11 Tractor Mechanic / BAVS Crew
B12 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B13 Poldavian Officer / BAVS Crew
B14 BAVS Crew
B15 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B16 ??? / BAVS Crew

Saper39
Private
Private
Posts: 10
Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 13:06

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Saper39 » 02 Jul 2019, 20:37

Grape wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 20:04
Saper39 wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 23:05
It would be great to make the BAVS receiver and the control box "undisconnectable" during the game. I mean the RJ-45 connector sealed by the crew.
I understand that it is frustrating, but I personally believe in Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

It is easy to forget to connect your battery, to reset your receiver after respawn or accidently disconnect your sensor. If a player wants to cheat he or she will find a way to do it. It is, how ever, up to us to make it as easy as possible for players to follow the rules. And I realize that there are some "room for improvement". Currently we have the red flashing heartbeat LED's on the sensor board. If you see a vehicle without a flashing sensor, please kindly remind them to turn their receiver on.
Thx for your reply, Grape.
We did checked and reminded the players after the fight (2 times actually with the same vehicle/team), but unfortunately for us, it was too late and we anyway went to respawn (and they continued the game, although they normally have been hit too, but okay, who am I to judge). One other vehicle took the hit when they saw their 2nd vehicle was destroyed (they had some issues with the receiver too, probably didn't reset after respawn). Thumbs up for this!

Thanks for a great system. As you self say, there is always a way to improve so we will be back and give you even more feedback next year :) :lol:

Verage
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 138
Joined: 16 Oct 2014, 08:09

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Verage » 03 Jul 2019, 16:34

BAVS worked great this year.
They were even devided between GFM en TFC. Yes, the shop sucked but things like that happen. But it got fixed and who wanted one, got one.

The AT4 is still very powerfull and good explenation about the button and accident fires. I never tought that was the reason. Now i get it and it makes sense. I read the possible upgrades on the system. The 3-6 sec tracking would be a nice addition.

It would be nice to have limited shots, after your shots are gone, you would have to go and reload in base or on an 'ammo crate'. So you get 10 new shots.

vinni
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1006
Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 16:25
Location: Belgium

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by vinni » 05 Jul 2019, 18:24

Tracking would be nice for the BAAS, but perhaps not for the BAVS. AT4s are a ballistic weapon, you miss or you don't :P

Some form of flash would be a great addition, to give the rest of the convoy an idea where the shot came from and react accordingly. A warning signal would just lead to some real janky manouvres (or perhaps the top gunner 'leaning a certain way').

Limiting ammo is a personal favourite of mine. Endless AT ammo is a bit OP.

Radio interference should be easily solved by shielding the components.
B6: NATO
B7: Orlov Corp
B8: Poldavian III Mntrs
B9: Poldavian III Mntrs
BX: Poldavian BRF
BXI: Blood Raven Recon
BXII: Blood Raven CO
BXIII: Cerberus BAT CO
BXIV: UPIR Senior Management
BXV: UPIR HQ resident cripple
BXVI: UPIR old fart
BXVII: GFM HQ
BXVIII: Yes

User avatar
Grape
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2013, 14:52

Re: Feedback - BAVS

Post by Grape » 05 Jul 2019, 22:31

Saper39 wrote:
02 Jul 2019, 20:37
Thx for your reply, Grape.
We did checked and reminded the players after the fight (2 times actually with the same vehicle/team), but unfortunately for us, it was too late and we anyway went to respawn (and they continued the game, although they normally have been hit too, but okay, who am I to judge). One other vehicle took the hit when they saw their 2nd vehicle was destroyed (they had some issues with the receiver too, probably didn't reset after respawn). Thumbs up for this!

Thanks for a great system. As you self say, there is always a way to improve so we will be back and give you even more feedback next year :) :lol:
Looking forward to next year, I hope we'll be able to make it work a bit better!
vinni wrote:
05 Jul 2019, 18:24
Tracking would be nice for the BAAS, but perhaps not for the BAVS. AT4s are a ballistic weapon, you miss or you don't :P
Well, the tracking is mainly meant to be a nerf for the AT4 so I don't think that we need to be completely realistic. :)
The locking LED's would make it a bit more visible when used in darkness and thus sacrifice stealth for the increased range.
Nerfing the AT4's could also potentially open up for a more varied arsenal of AT-weapons, for example HMG's with very weak individual "bullets" but relatively high rate of fire. Armour piercing sniper-rifles which are weaker than AT4's but more "sneaky".
vinni wrote:
05 Jul 2019, 18:24
Some form of flash would be a great addition, to give the rest of the convoy an idea where the shot came from and react accordingly. A warning signal would just lead to some real janky manouvres (or perhaps the top gunner 'leaning a certain way').
We will have to try some different solutions to find one that is fun, fair and safe for both the shooter and the shootee.
I just pray that we will be given the time and opportunity to do it.
vinni wrote:
05 Jul 2019, 18:24
Limiting ammo is a personal favourite of mine. Endless AT ammo is a bit OP.
We tried a physical key to limit the ammunition but those were lost/stolen every year so we gave up on that when the keys ran out. For some reason the rules still says:
The AT weapon must be reloaded by a Game-master in your base HQ with special key.
We will look into the possibility to load it with IR, perhaps we could try it on a couple of AT4's next year and see how it works. Perhaps making it work as anti-air missiles but giving it a magazine limit of 10 rockets and if it turns out well it could be expanded to the rest?

vinni wrote:
05 Jul 2019, 18:24
Radio interference should be easily solved by shielding the components.
Yes, I'm not worried about that either, it is a bit embarrasing though.
It kinda reminds me about the game in Graninge where a lot of battles were fought under the power-lines. And we got a number of reports about the BAVS system not working.
It turned out that enough current was induced into the ethernet wire from the powerline to confuse the receivers.
Well, you live and learn. 8)

Thanks for your feedback!

Let me also add that what is written here are not promises but just my personal thoughts and opinions. We will have to see what BE wants to have done and what they want to prioritize.
Borduria Prevails

B7 Doctor / BAVS Crew
B8 Poldavian / BAVS Crew
B9 Driver, Ivanchuk Exports and Import / BAVS Crew
B10 BAVS Crew
B11 Tractor Mechanic / BAVS Crew
B12 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B13 Poldavian Officer / BAVS Crew
B14 BAVS Crew
B15 Bordurian Diplomat / BAVS Crew
B16 ??? / BAVS Crew

Post Reply