Feedback - General

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 17
seaQ
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by seaQ » 01 Jul 2019, 12:52

Arradin wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 12:12
Regarding the last mission, that was most likely not your HQs fault. They got the mission with 15 minutes deadline to leave - This was done on purpose for balance reasons, and give blue a chance to fortify ambush positions. It worked well, it seems.
Might not be, however we got orders:
19:39 to go back, rest, eat and be ready to go out again at 20:35.

Since that only gave us less than an hour we decided to stay in field. At 20:15 we got a photo of all the barrels in front of HQ and then no more untill 22:45 saying the taxi service would go around and pick up players who wanted to go back.

At 20:50 we found another group that had gotten word from their command that all should join up in the convoy, which we did, so it all worked out. Just would have been nice to get the mission briefing from HQ since it seemed to regard all red players.
Arradin wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 12:12
Regarding friendly fire, i went there now to instantly clarify the rule, but it is clarified literally one line under what you quoted with
" NOTE: You must always take your hits regardless where the shot came from, but as always do not argue - Report to a GM if you feel that a rule has been broken and continue playing as normal. " ( ????????????????? ) ;)
Yes, we noticed that in field which was the reason we never changed the way we played (iow: friendly fire still equals to a hit). But that doesn't change the fact that other people seemed to have gotten the wrong message. So, a clarification might still be in order (or rewrite).


Thanks for the fast responses!
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Arradin
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Arradin » 01 Jul 2019, 13:37

seaQ wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 12:52
Arradin wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 12:12
Regarding the last mission, that was most likely not your HQs fault. They got the mission with 15 minutes deadline to leave - This was done on purpose for balance reasons, and give blue a chance to fortify ambush positions. It worked well, it seems.
Might not be, however we got orders:
19:39 to go back, rest, eat and be ready to go out again at 20:35.

Since that only gave us less than an hour we decided to stay in field. At 20:15 we got a photo of all the barrels in front of HQ and then no more untill 22:45 saying the taxi service would go around and pick up players who wanted to go back.

At 20:50 we found another group that had gotten word from their command that all should join up in the convoy, which we did, so it all worked out. Just would have been nice to get the mission briefing from HQ since it seemed to regard all red players.
Arradin wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 12:12
Regarding friendly fire, i went there now to instantly clarify the rule, but it is clarified literally one line under what you quoted with
" NOTE: You must always take your hits regardless where the shot came from, but as always do not argue - Report to a GM if you feel that a rule has been broken and continue playing as normal. " ( ????????????????? ) ;)
Yes, we noticed that in field which was the reason we never changed the way we played (iow: friendly fire still equals to a hit). But that doesn't change the fact that other people seemed to have gotten the wrong message. So, a clarification might still be in order (or rewrite).


Thanks for the fast responses!
I will re-write that part of the rule to make it crystal clear, Thanks!
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by skeptic » 01 Jul 2019, 13:40

Might be a good idea for GM´s to have the diffrent rules in wrighting on them to be able to clarify in the field.
There was an incident with the Kraz (gigantic truck on the red team) were a blue player threw a BB loaded Co2 grenade that hit the windshield instead of the truckbed/turret. Acording to the Gm on site it was allowed but the website says diffrently.
The sonic grenade is the only grenade you are allowed to use against cars with open turret or windows. If using a grenade against a vehicle, you can only “drop” the grenade into a open window or turret/hatch. Never throw the grenade from a distance. If a B.A.P.S. grenade detonates inside a vehicle, all players inside are hit. The vehicle is NOT destroyed. You may never approach a MOVING vehicle to drop a grenade.
And just to clarify i understand that it was impossible to "drop" the grenade into the truck and that he had to throw it (Although it was a lousy throw).
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seaQ
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by seaQ » 01 Jul 2019, 15:58

Chopstyxx wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 14:06
If anything will bring me back. It is the 10 year of service patch.... hell probably wont have anymore soon.
This was my tenth Berget game and was looking forward to this patch, however, didn't get one at check-in. A friend of mine asked why and was told you could buy one in the shop. Although I know some of my other friends received this patch a couple of years ago during check-in.
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Krogenator
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Krogenator » 01 Jul 2019, 16:05

This was my first time at Berget so not sure how it compares to earlier years but I will talk about what I saw on the Blue team for my first year.
And sorry for the text wall,I am shit at making paragraphs.

The base facilities was a lot better then I expected,water,power,toilets and the shop was top notch.
I heard others complain about the toilets,but they were better taken care of then 90ish% of music festivals I have been to and 50ish% of construction sites.
My main problem was with people that peed all over the seats(no not chlorine spray after the cleaning,some actually did not see the urinal on the side wall) and one of my friends ones walked inn on a toilet someone had shotgun diarrhea'd the general area around the toilet hole,been nice enough to take the seat up first, but that's still not fun to walk inn to.


The lack of safety info was also a little alarming,I was in armored and I know you stay the --- SPAM !!! --- away from anything with tracks when it is moving,
but this was never mentioned to the general public,and I overheard people talking about putting explosives on the side of the tank,as if they could walk right up to it when it was running.I told them to not walk close to it but no idea how many others thought they had brilliant ideas like this.
I also never heard anyone mention that you should not shoot the driver of the tank, as he has his head out to be able see and make sure he doesn't drive any idiots over,or rather I heard someone mention that the driver had been complaining about it but not before the last day.
I highly recommend telling people that if they don't want to be turned into minced meat,they should not shoot the driver or get close to the tank.
It might seam like common sens, but the problem is that common sens isn't common.


Command structure was a bit,all over the place at times.
The telegram system seams like a great thing ones you get used to using it, but for me personally it was very hard to get used to using my phone instead of a radio.Something that lead to a lack of intelligence going both ways,that probably didn't help the blue team.
There also seamed to be a lack of good middle management from my personal view,
as I ones overheard a briefing from the top as I was charging a phone,but most of the information never got its way down to me and my group.

There was also a bit more waiting then I felt was necessary on the blue team, often we were given very long times to get ready and were standing around waiting for others to get ready.
At one point we got back to base, were told to get ready for our next mission,and I had time to get ready,assemble a small force as we heard word about a attack coming with tanks and troops supposed to come from our north,go out find no tanks, almost get bombed by our own team,push further north to try and find the tanks we never found, capture a point,almost get hit by a friendly helicopter strike,walk back to base and still be ready to walk out for the original mission.

I also heard roomers of the enemy team being up to 500 more people then us,but figured it was propaganda from the red team(no idea how much of that happens but 500 sounded like a unrealistic number),I did how ever notice that our tent only had 3/4 of the people show up.
On the field how ever it did very often feel like we kept getting out numbed every time we got in a fight.


There was also the problem that we kept meeting teams where out of 10 people 8 were medics,and our team had maybe 2-4 medics for a group of 10 people.
If I had stopped to think about the fact that there is no rules limiting how many medics you can have,I would have had a lot more medics as well as it gives a massive advantage in staying power.

There was also several cases where I am pretty surer I hit people and they didn't call their hits(but I cant be 100% sure),and 2 incidents where I know I hit people and that they must have felt it (shooting 3-5 0,28g with a yellow marked DMR at 20-30m into sidefat with thin clothing covering it) where all they did was move into better cover where I couldn't shoot them.
There was also a case of someone on the enemy team getting shoot 3min before I got hit, and when I was getting up to go back to base after bleeding out (10min) one of his team mates ran over to heal him.
Also heard people complain they saw a group they had a fire fight with and lost to,walk away with half their team wearing bandages, just to see the group attacking our homebase with out any bandages by the time they had gotten back to base and were waiting for the timer to get closer to re-spawn before going for it(not seen it myself so can't confirm or deny).

I am not saying there are no cheaters on the blue team,or that it is impossible I got hit with out noticing at some point during the game.
But it is not good for moral of the team to see this kind of behavior and no refs in the field almost all game, I saw a crew member maybe 2 times the entire game outside of the guys driving around shooting fireworks at strike zones and crew inside the home base every now and then.

I still had fun,but most of that was when we went a bit off the original mission or we were responding to people needing backup rather then setting up ambushes and waiting 2h for nothing to come along.Or spending hours to get ready for missions where we got 100m outside our base before we walked into a group of reds 2x as many people as us with 4x the amount of medics.

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Arradin » 01 Jul 2019, 16:52

seaQ wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 15:58
Chopstyxx wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 14:06
If anything will bring me back. It is the 10 year of service patch.... hell probably wont have anymore soon.
This was my tenth Berget game and was looking forward to this patch, however, didn't get one at check-in. A friend of mine asked why and was told you could buy one in the shop. Although I know some of my other friends received this patch a couple of years ago during check-in.
We have only had the 10th year patch for 3 years now, and it has never been at check-in. Must have been confused with the " Berget 17 patch " , which you recieve at checkin if you order one, and you can also buy them in the shop.

The 10th year patch gets given out at the after game beerparty OR get sent home to you if you give us your information.

Anyone who hasnt recieved their patch, send an email to info@berget-events.com with that games you attended and all relevant information.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by AceCunow » 01 Jul 2019, 17:26

Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 16:05

"Command structure was a bit,all over the place at times."
-> Its sadly almost always is since its super hard to fint ppl interested in leading. Plus the fact that nearly noone reads the forums where we post all the info and questions. This year we had for infantry all company comanders set. Almost no platon/squad leaders. This had to be sorted on place. And there is nothing saying the one who gets the job is suited for it. Mech had Platoon leaders but it was hard reaching the squads since again noone reads the forums. So i fully understand that it seems a bit all over the place.
Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 16:05
"The telegram system seams like a great thing ones you get used to using it, but for me personally it was very hard to get used to using my phone instead of a radio.Something that lead to a lack of intelligence going both ways,that probably didn't help the blue team."
-> This is something we have built our selves to solve the issues with as soon as a unit leaves the base we loose contact with them. The Radios work only a short way. Radios are instead used as a tool to comunicate in the platoon/squad wne in field. Our Telegram solution is ment to be super easy to use. Just send your location, Send picturs/Videos plus reeport if your ingame or offgame. if you have a question you can ask it there when in field (if you used Radio there would be silence till you got back to base) We send out the general info and the map to differant chanels. Its free to use unlike most other aps. And for us in HQ it is a extremely great and easy tool for us to get all the intel. So the more you use it the better the experiance we can create for you.
Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 16:05
"There also seamed to be a lack of good middle management from my personal view,
as I ones overheard a briefing from the top as I was charging a phone,but most of the information never got its way down to me and my group."
-> See the wall of text above, And Yes there is always the risk that some information doesnt reach all the way out. Guess all of you have played the whisper game. Always something gets lost on the way. Also as i wrote above. Some leaders arent maybe 100% suited for that job. And therefore maybe dont pay attention to details. And also not all soldiers care, some only want the bigger picture and no details. Its a balance that needs to be filled in the end. Tip. Apply for comand nect year and fix it =) We will always be happy to get more leaders that want things tp wprk better.
Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 16:05
"There was also a bit more waiting then I felt was necessary on the blue team, often we were given very long times to get ready and were standing around waiting for others to get ready.
At one point we got back to base, were told to get ready for our next mission,and I had time to get ready,assemble a small force as we heard word about a attack coming with tanks and troops supposed to come from our north,go out find no tanks, almost get bombed by our own team,push further north to try and find the tanks we never found, capture a point,almost get hit by a friendly helicopter strike,walk back to base and still be ready to walk out for the original mission."
-> Sadly the term Hurry up and wait applies all to well on Airsoft. We always try our best to get everyone out on time. But lets just say this. When we give an order to be ready at say 20:00, 70% arent ready. Add 1 h and in best case 90 % are done. At this point we usually cut our losses and leave the 10% remaining. Its extremely frustratin to wait as a comander aswell. We just want to get the train rolling. But we also need to understand that this is paying customers and its not a hardcore Milsim. PPl will always want to play things their way and have their limits etc. The waiting is 95% of the time due to players not being ready on time.

Hope these answers (i cud only answer the ones i hold responsabuility of) gives you some clarification.
To add to this we in Command. (from HQ to squad leader) do this for free and we do it for all the soldiers. We do our best. And sometimes we do mistakes. Be humble and help us learn. =)

Ace Out

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Krogenator » 01 Jul 2019, 18:37

I fully get that its hard to find good leadership,and I am not blaming anyone for the lack of it,just pointing out that it was there.

I also see that the telegram system is great for giving people the tools to communicate over longer distances.
I was just pointing out that for me personally it was hard to get used to having to check my phone every few min to see if there was new info,
and several times we got to caught up in getting stuff done,responding to things happening in field,so we forgot to report what we were doing on the app.
It works when used properly,it is just a bit unnatural for me as I don't spend large amounts of time on my phone.

I know this isn't a hardcore milsim and that's part of why I enjoyed it,it wasn't all serious.
There were a few people who took it way to serious, and a few who took it a bit to much as a place to f*** around in my personal opinion.
But a lot of the time I saw people always wait to the last min to get ready,if we got 2h to get ready they would sit down for 1h30m and use the last30m to get ready, if they had 1h they would wait 30min and use the last 30m to get ready. At least most of the people in my company seamed to do that.

As a brainfart thought,would it be possible to set up missions as "we need 3 squads for this" and just grab the first 3 squads who came inn and reported as ready? I know that would be a bit harder for HQ to keep track of, but it would let squads who feel they want to relax more,time to relax more with out it going out over squads who want to just reload and run out again.
I found a lot of times when home base got attacked,or we just gatherd together people for a last outing when most our platoon wanted to call it a night, we would mix together several squads from different companies and it worked just as well as having all squads from the same company(from our perspective).

I would also like to point out that any failures I noticed from HQ was equally to blame on me and other people lower in the system failing to send info up and give info down.
I was a squad leader and the situation where HQ almost bombed me, then later almost attack helicopter me is just as much,if not more my fault for never saying in the app that I gathered a QRF and went out,or that there was no tanks at the spot that later got bombed(we had time to set up a ambush for the tanks before we heard word from others friendlies in the area a bombing attack was on the way),or that we pushed on north to try and see if the enemy was further north,or that we started capturing the capture point,or that there still was no vehicles close to said capture point.We diden't give HQ the info so HQ acted on the info they had.

As for applying for command, I do not want to be higher up the system then a squad leader because yes I want things to work better,but I do not think I would do a good job higher up then squad leader.

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Arginj » 01 Jul 2019, 19:04

Arradin wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 16:52
seaQ wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 15:58
Chopstyxx wrote:
30 Jun 2019, 14:06
If anything will bring me back. It is the 10 year of service patch.... hell probably wont have anymore soon.
This was my tenth Berget game and was looking forward to this patch, however, didn't get one at check-in. A friend of mine asked why and was told you could buy one in the shop. Although I know some of my other friends received this patch a couple of years ago during check-in.

We have only had the 10th year patch for 3 years now, and it has never been at check-in. Must have been confused with the " Berget 17 patch " , which you recieve at checkin if you order one, and you can also buy them in the shop.

The 10th year patch gets given out at the after game beerparty OR get sent home to you if you give us your information.

Anyone who hasnt recieved their patch, send an email to info@berget-events.com with that games you attended and all relevant information.
I saw two guys getting their patches in the AT4/40 mm queue.
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by AceCunow » 01 Jul 2019, 19:31

Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 18:37
I fully get that its hard to find good leadership,and I am not blaming anyone for the lack of it,just pointing out that it was there.
->And i am thankfull that you give feedback. My answers wher just answers to your feedback from our perspective.



Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 18:37
I also see that the telegram system is great for giving people the tools to communicate over longer distances.
I was just pointing out that for me personally it was hard to get used to having to check my phone every few min to see if there was new info,
and several times we got to caught up in getting stuff done,responding to things happening in field,so we forgot to report what we were doing on the app.
It works when used properly,it is just a bit unnatural for me as I don't spend large amounts of time on my phone.
->Yes it takes a bit to get used to. All of us would rather use Radio, but sadly it doesnt work over distances. So we try and create something that works.

Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 18:37
I know this isn't a hardcore milsim and that's part of why I enjoyed it,it wasn't all serious.
There were a few people who took it way to serious, and a few who took it a bit to much as a place to f*** around in my personal opinion.
But a lot of the time I saw people always wait to the last min to get ready,if we got 2h to get ready they would sit down for 1h30m and use the last30m to get ready, if they had 1h they would wait 30min and use the last 30m to get ready. At least most of the people in my company seamed to do that.
->We have had this as an issue and talked to crew about it. We have some ideas on how to solve that in the future. There will be new leadership in Blue next year so lets see if its solved.
Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 18:37
As a brainfart thought,would it be possible to set up missions as "we need 3 squads for this" and just grab the first 3 squads who came inn and reported as ready? I know that would be a bit harder for HQ to keep track of, but it would let squads who feel they want to relax more,time to relax more with out it going out over squads who want to just reload and run out again.
I found a lot of times when home base got attacked,or we just gatherd together people for a last outing when most our platoon wanted to call it a night, we would mix together several squads from different companies and it worked just as well as having all squads from the same company(from our perspective).
->We had things to do if that would hapen and we would like it to. There will always be players who chill in base. The ones who dont can then gather and come to HQ and we would give you tasks. I said so on my opening speach. If your bored or want to change something we are always there to help.
Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 18:37
I would also like to point out that any failures I noticed from HQ was equally to blame on me and other people lower in the system failing to send info up and give info down.
I was a squad leader and the situation where HQ almost bombed me, then later almost attack helicopter me is just as much,if not more my fault for never saying in the app that I gathered a QRF and went out,or that there was no tanks at the spot that later got bombed(we had time to set up a ambush for the tanks before we heard word from others friendlies in the area a bombing attack was on the way),or that we pushed on north to try and see if the enemy was further north,or that we started capturing the capture point,or that there still was no vehicles close to said capture point.We diden't give HQ the info so HQ acted on the info they had.
-> Precisely. You hit the hammer on the nail there. If we knew you where there we would not fire. If we knew the tanks moved, we would not waste an airstrike there. Also if we knew you where there and you knew where to put the airstrike, we might have eliminated the threat. So if we ever lead again, please keep us informed. =) Wed love to see you spot the tanks, give us the grid and send a massive airstrike to let them burn in hell =)
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Berget 12 - PMC Hatchet Company Commander
Berget 13 - Para infantry Platoon Commander
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Berget 15 - NAF ACE Company Path Finders
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Berget 17 - TFC CO

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Panzergraf » 01 Jul 2019, 19:54

Krogenator wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 16:05
The lack of safety info was also a little alarming,I was in armored and I know you stay the --- SPAM !!! --- away from anything with tracks when it is moving,
but this was never mentioned to the general public,and I overheard people talking about putting explosives on the side of the tank,as if they could walk right up to it when it was running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGQQ1ggm75Y
The tank crew were luckily alert enough to throw chocolate at anyone standing too close :)
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Vee » 01 Jul 2019, 20:46

I typed out all my feedback on the laptop, but its wifi module is shot to hell so I'll save that for when I'm finally done travelling.

Telegram is ass. Can I make a suggestion? Discord. You could have an easily manageable server, and can set Roles so users can be put in Red or Blue or anything else respectively, quite easily. It can ecen be done from mobile, it uses less data and compromises photos better.
Because roles can be added and removed, you could use it far easier to switch things around every event.

I'd be willing to set everything up for it and then hand over control. I've done this for another event that uses it quite successfully.

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Icharus » 01 Jul 2019, 22:40

I was the squad leader on the M6 Truck, TFC.
My third Berget, second time in mech, first time as squad leader.

Enjoyed the game a lot this year, we worked good as a team and was very good at taking out Red mech and infantry. The M6 truck and the 19 men in the back was a blast to lead.

+Armband, going to sew on some Velcro and reuse it for next Berget.
+That the driver and owner of the M6 was willing to drive it 840 kilometres one way to Berget and the same 840 kilometres back home!!
+Very little cheating!
+Friendly and talkative Reds, on several occasions when we got shot out we talked with shot out Reds. We enjoyed the lack of “Us versus them” mentality!
+The kiosk was nice as always, I hope Sollefteå Hockey earned good money.
+Telegram, I like this way to communicate, it freed up my radios for squad com and truck com.
+I heard several PTW’s on both Red and Blue side, good to know people still enjoy them.
+BAVS system, this is starting to be a very good system, please don’t stop to improve it further.

Huge negative!!
I can’t believe the lack of respect people had regarding our truck. We had several near death experiences because people was standing close behind it or on the sides and the driver couldn’t see them. Our crew told people to back off repeatedly during firefights or manoeuvring without getting heard, it should be unnecessary to tell people to move more than once.
The truck is weighing 6.6 tons alone and difficult to manoeuvre with huge blind spots.
At one point we stopped taking other players with us because we almost killed two players jumping off the truck during a BAVS hit while the driver started to reverse.

Looking forward for Berget 18!

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Re: Feedback - General

Post by AceCunow » 01 Jul 2019, 22:47

Vee wrote:
01 Jul 2019, 20:46
I typed out all my feedback on the laptop, but its wifi module is shot to hell so I'll save that for when I'm finally done travelling.

Telegram is ass. Can I make a suggestion? Discord. You could have an easily manageable server, and can set Roles so users can be put in Red or Blue or anything else respectively, quite easily. It can ecen be done from mobile, it uses less data and compromises photos better.
Because roles can be added and removed, you could use it far easier to switch things around every event.

I'd be willing to set everything up for it and then hand over control. I've done this for another event that uses it quite successfully.
Thanx for your feedback.

Firstly what we use Telegram for is something Discord isnt built for.
For example you cant share your location on Discord.
Its a good gaming chat/voice com tool yes, Heck i use it daily. Probably better at transcoding pictures but thats not something we need. Still not able to do what we use Telegram for.

Now we dont say Telegram is the best thing out there. But it sure does the job we need it to do.
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Jokk
Newbee
Newbee
Posts: 7
Joined: 07 Nov 2012, 21:52

Re: Feedback - General

Post by Jokk » 02 Jul 2019, 04:43

I don't have much bad to say about this years game, except that it felt like blue was using us MP more like mech / inf. This is just my point of view and I apologise if command really tried to give us larp missions etc.

I liked the new chrono rules alot. Feels more up to date with modern tech. I got a feeling that some people didn't understand the new rules.
On our car-mounted machine gun, we got CQB class (blue zip tie) and the crew who chronoed it specificaly said "you have 1 meter on this one". We thought that would be nice considering the thick bushes in the ditches.
Out in the field we have 3 or 4 encounters with players claiming that ALL machine guns still have 15 meters safety distance. This might have to be better clarified by the rules / chronolist. Unless I am the one who understand the rules wrong (together with the crew who chronoed our MG).
If that is the case, I apologise deeply to the players we shot at within those 15 meters.

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