Feedback - General

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 17
Arginj
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Arginj » 18 Jul 2019, 18:46

3ngine wrote:
18 Jul 2019, 14:38
It would be great if someone would read the payments@berget-events -email, I sent mail two weeks ago no answers...
Agree with this. No answers.
B14: UPIR Mech (Loki)
B15: UPIR Mech (Loki)
B16: UPIR Mech (Eagle 2-3)
B17: GFM Mech (Romeo)
B18: ?

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Arradin
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Arradin » 18 Jul 2019, 22:06

3ngine wrote:
18 Jul 2019, 14:38
It would be great if someone would read the payments@berget-events -email, I sent mail two weeks ago no answers...
Ah, i appologize for the delay in replies - Berget Crew have vacation after berget , you should get a reply soon.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

Oma_Desala
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Oma_Desala » 19 Jul 2019, 22:57

Hi to Nordisec Police!

First I want to thank you for being in berget!!!! You guys are awesome!!!
You guys had rough time in berget, some of you left home after 2 days. :(

>Minus -
>Brake in to car, scratched cars by writing stuf on them. Just because its a police car and you normaly dont like the police, we are not police! We pay >for this with our own money.
>Our team put alot of money in to this, to look like and act like the real police. Real police cars are expencive, and we used more than 4000Euros just >on fuel. We hade 8 Police cars at berget this year, we got 6 some how vandalized. This kind of stuf will make it so we dont go to this kind of event.
>We are normal "civilians" going to this event in our own cars for our own money, its not a goverment founded police force that can just get new shit >for tax money. So stay the --- SPAM !!! --- off our cars! And other cars to.
>[/quote]

I personally appreciate the job that you have done to look like police. And your cars! Nice job!!!
This doesn´t fit in a small human head, WHY, oh WHY anyone reasonable person would behave like an *** hole?!??!!!!
I thought other players knew, that you were paying your own gears and equipment. ( Don't we all?) Or is it just indifference to others´ property!!!?!!! :evil:
How ever vandalized your cars, I hope he has enough BALLS to be A MAN and pay for the damage what's been done!!!
I don't accept bad behavior towards anyone or anything!!! :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :evil:

>Our placement in the Blue base, we need to be able to be local police if we are locals to the ingame country, Red fight us because we were blue, >Civilians fight us because we are police, blue fight us because they think we are in the way of the military part of the game. If we are going to be >local police again we need to live and work inside the civilian town as civilian police, and not have any aliance to the military sides.

I have to agreed to this one too. I hope next time the police will protect civilians.

>Fighting inside the town. Red is local military force, they are there to protect there own country aka the civilians also, Blue is a force going in to an >area to help the civilians, so wy all this fighting in the town and shooting up the civilans just for fun? This destroys the LARP part as a killed civilan >have to spawn as a new person, and if we have a wittnes of a crime and it gets killed every 10min wtf will we do?

Friday night shooting inside the town was bad. Red was ok and most of the blue's too. But it need only couple idiots to ruin the mood and the game. Shooting civilians just for fun. Even if blue has a mission to find someone. Next time open your mouth, not fire.
So special thanks for you Nordisec Police for rescuing Saturday morning!!! Even, I did get shot for throwing my shoes towards you. :D
B16 Civilian
B17 Civilian

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Tiger_1
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Tiger_1 » 22 Jul 2019, 19:55

First off, thanks for the game.
Having done this for a lot of years, my Berget game has become a yearly meet with a great group of friends from all over the world. This fact makes our game a great time just because we get to shoot bb’s at and with each other.
Overall, toilets, kiosk, checkin, crono and tents worked out fine (at least when we reduced the nr of people in it when we found two tents up was nearly empty ;) )
Car checkin could probably have been more effective, others have given suggestions to fix that.
I know people have had comments on balance, and yes, this year blue had a up hill fight, but we had some good fights all the same.
Command seemed to work ok from my point of view (good missions now and again), and luckily as top gunner on a vic I did not have to worry to much about the overall story ;) The telegram info worked ok in conjunction with the Berget map.
As a top gunner without a shield or turret I can relate to the issues of being a lot easier to shoot ;) but I still survived a lot more encounters then I thought I would. The safety range on my MG was a issue I discovered early, and about 85% of my engagement where actually carried out with my backup carbine that was CQB rated. I would ask that guns are given safety distance based on their crono stat, not role. If players wish to have a MG with a shorter range but more useful in game, this should be possible.
As a final note, I got to be part of the short lived mounted raid on the “crossroad poker game” on Saturday, that was a fun little fight, sorry we were late and had lost so many players (a lot of people leave early on Saturday) that we could not hold out longer :)

See you all next year!

Ps. Thanks to the great crew of our blue force mech platoon, nice fighting with you
"go to your God like a soldier!"

Norseman-76
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Norseman-76 » 25 Jul 2019, 09:38

So, this was the first time I ever joined a Berget game, and I must say it did not disappoint! It has been on my bucket list to attend for several years, so it was great to finally make it. Will I be attending sometime again? I sure hope so, but it will probably not be next year.

I originally volunteered to be a platoon leader for TFC. Leading up to the final week before the game, I suddenly realized that I would actually be a company commander (although my 'company' was sized up as a small platoon). As this through some of my plans in the trash, it is probably the only negative thing I can think of that happened to me personally.

It was an absolute pleasure working with every member of Bravo Company! I can only hope that I was able to provide in accordance with my command position, and that you all had fun, first and foremost!
And of course, it was really great being able to work alongside the mech units, where some of my friends from my hometown were a part of.

Ace and Brian, I also hope that the performance of Bravo Company was up to your standards!

As for specific feedback, a lot of good points have been made already, but I'll throw in my two cents worth:

- The information regarding who is in what company, platoon and squads could be somewhat better. The info I received for the original platoon was received well in time, such that squad planning could be done. However, once more information came in the last week before the game, and that it was now a company and not a platoon, came a bit too close to the game itself. This, together with the fact that a lot of the plyers did not check the forums meant that a lot of planning and coordination had to be done on the game day itself. A minor thing, as I did enjoy the challenge. But it could have been better.

- The kiosk was excellent! Really good burgers, friendly staff! I did not really expect such relative high standard of food at an event like this, but I applaud it! Please bring my regards to the staff of the kiosk!

- The use of the Telegram app for TFC side worked fairly well, in my opinion. However, the minute I got involved in firefights or, as on the first night when I was separated from the rest of the company and harassing my way around the enemy rear, I simply did not have any time to update locations or info. On the second night, when we supported mechanized to first capture CP1 before moving on to the village, I worked out a system with the mech unit commander that I work on the ground controlling the company in response to enemy movements and communicating frequently with mech commander, while he updated on the app (since he was seated in vehicle). This allowed me to keep my focus on what took place in the field, while at the same time HQ was updated as to what was going on. Just a thing to note for other commanders at a later game.

Overall, extremely happy about the game, even though I had underestimated my own stamina when it comes to running and gunning in forest terrain. I guess I have to condition myself better before I attempt to join gain :P
Bravo Zulu!

Norseman
TFC B Coy CO - Berget 2019

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Hypokondrikern
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Hypokondrikern » 05 Aug 2019, 20:37

This was my ninth berget and here follows the annual report:
( notice how some things were not mentioned as I did not buy from the shop, kiosk or use the shower...)

# Things that still work:

- Toilets,
Better than most music festivals but could truly be given a second sweep in the afternoon.
- Chrono,
Excellent ! All thumbs up! There have been years where I felt like people could get through all kinds of nasty equipment but this year delivered a friendly and professional crew that made me feel that the game would be played safe and fair. )
- Parking,
There is still space to park - even if you are late

New stuff of interest:

- The reaper drone did have an impact and brought a cinematic effect to the convoy mission
- I liked the idea of the booby trapped mines but did not encounter them in-game
- Great armbands! Fixate the player number so they are reusable and the system is perfect!

# Things to improve upon:

- Balance,
This never goes the right way. I always feel like the red is overwhelming the blue and they are to be given extra perks - which makes difference for the HQs but has very little effect on the red infantry following orders and waiting long hours for contact. I am considering to change to the blue team just to give them a hand..
( I could also see how it is time to skip the camo distinctions to have people with two colored armbands and the possibility to join either team. This assures perfect balance. Platoons, yes even squads could then easily be moved from one team to another for perfect balance of the forces. )

- Saturday is for sleeping,
It seems to be general mindset that saturday is a day of peace. Very few are ready to move our and there are few orders. Blue side have often more or less given up at this point and one doesn't really get the energy to tread out from the sleepy setting in base. It is almost as if one loses this half game day entirely.

- The base is a festival,
Another change over the years has been the softening atmosphere in the camps. I just feel like Berget has turned somewhat of a rifle decorated festival with music and drinking in the camp. Keep an eye on those beers and please enforce some sort of

- Where is the button?
The placement of CPs could be more straightforward to make them more easily found and also to improve the action around them. The only one that is interesting in my eyes is CP6 which proves excellent inf vs inf and inf vs mech combat. There is a clearing, dense forest, elevation and road combined. CP6 always delivers the best combat.

- Are we allowed to respawn?
This can be the friendly yet awkward dialogue around a respawn when you do not have a phone with you. Indication in respawn whether the position is yours or not could be a remedy. There are many of us that don't want to bring our phone into the wet greens. Please create a beacon for the respawn area as well.

- Vehicle movement and safety distance of their MGS
Hm, this was close to turning bad many a time during this berget. Yes, tanks and iphones - but I was mostly thinking of the blue convoy that almost rolled over a group of reds armed with toothbrushes. The next step was full auto outside the kiosk from MGS onto targets that were grilling. I can still be baffled that no one was wounded. I do not think that these drive-ins are safe - yet they contribute to some sort of satisfying chaos.

- A sign of the LARPER
Make a patch for players that are ready to interact through the verbal word and not only plastic.

- Better control of the use of Bio BBs
There are still many that do not use Bio BBs, I do not know how to control it but don't like the use of the harmful plastics.
Berget 15: UPIR Infantry // Medic.
Berget 13: Minerva Infantry // Squadleader.
Berget 12: Orlow's Mercenaries // Squadleader.
Berget 11: UA17 // Squadleader.
Berget 10: Poldavian PSYOPS // Squadleader.
Berget 9: Poldavian Artillery // Squadleader.
Berget 8: 5th NAF // Medic.

Iprenen
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Iprenen » 31 Oct 2019, 10:18

[quote=Arradin post_id=78574 time=1563448951 user_id=12034]
[quote=GIS post_id=78573 time=1563447420 user_id=14284]

Blowinf up the Helipad have no effect at all? We undersod it like if the helipad gets blown the military fraction will be effected. only thing that happend? Military fractions just whent harder on the town and shooting it up for fun.

[/quote]

Thank you for your feedback!

I have a comment about quoted part, and that is that both teams ( Blue and red ) had vital missions involving the helipad. They were unable to complete these missions during the 12 hours that the Helipad was destroyed, which is actually a big part of why red failed one of their main missions.

Regarding your missions where you failed some and succeeded with many , there were Little to no scripted events as per your feedback from B16. Almost all missions you got was involving other players, and just because you didnt see or find something at a specific location, didnt mean it wasnt there. However, i realise that some kind of Visual reward that you are in the right Place is needed, and this will be improved for future games.

Remember that noone except BE has the full Picture on whats going on, which is a good thing during the game, but i am actually Writing up a larger AAR where all missions and situations are explained to all players.

Thank you for coming to Berget 17, and as i have stated many times, keep Communications up. If you have suggestions, and want to improve yours and entire gameplay - Dont be quiet. We listen, much more than people seem to Think :)

Thanks again!
[/quote]

As per LARP rules, having pointers and controlling the actual events did not work as per Berget 16 feedback which we corrected for the LARP part.

Here is however the other problem: The soft-sim (calling it a MILSIM is just bad because it isn't) doesn't give a f- about the LARP which we saw multiple times during the event. This was the case despite the military fractions had dependencies toward the civilians, meaning that they should've practically protected the civilians at all f-n cost INCLUDING the police!

This created cluster f-s beyond any imagination already on day 2 and it was just a snowballing slope from there. The situation despite our tirelessly effort of turning that tide ended up as the Police becoming target for the WHOLE red team, the military force of the same country as the police? What in the actual f-??

One of the core reasons toward this was the plain and simple: "The initial thoughts of the civilians is that you are a corrupted police force and they will act accordingly." This while the whole (and I mean whole when I say it) village actually was corrupted themself, I mean, come on?

This means that you have a village of 25+ individuals, armed to the teeth with little to no reconsideration if they should pick up arms against the police force of under 20 individuals with the frankly impossible mission of turning their opinion, just look at the real police forces around the world today.
This is not counting in the simple part of the village gangs alliance with the red team which concluded an already WTF situation into a cluster FUBAR^2 situation for us.

Simple points for preventing shit like this:

1. Do not let a local part of the village EVER ally with a military fraction. The second this is done, the civilian fraction is part of a military fraction and off limits for the rest of the civilians.
2. Create a gamestory that is actually as a goddamn war! There is one country in the whole world today that have the actual military fighting a "warlord" that deals in drugs and that is in Colombia.
3. Separate the storyline of the locals from the military fraction. Totally. You can't have 2k players having orders of shoot, do not shoot, shoot but only if you hit Mickie Mouse bullshit and then put <100 civilians in the middle of that shitstorm.

On a sidenote which is really furiating for us is the lack of communication within Berget Crew and the handling of players.
We know that you (Arradin) try to make it into a LARP event aswell but the rest of the crew doesn't give a shit about the LARP part. There was so many times we were given instructions which then was blown out of the window by another crew member. One case of this was that police was initially allowed to go up to 35km/h when lights and sound was on and during a pursuit, just to have any chance of getting up on a civilian car. This was then rejected by another crew member saying that she will f- us up if we exceed 30km/h, period. Other parts were when crew (Arradin) gave specific orders to players which then was fucked over by either command with orders from other crew members or by other crew members in place.

One part is also really f- up: During the break in into one of our car, A CREW MEMBER WITH A GOPRO WAS ON SITE ON THE ROAD LOOKING DOWN TOWARDS THE CARS!!! What did this give us when we asked to review the footage?
A god damn "No, you will not review the footage and I will go now".
This made us loose all form of respect towards crew and Berget as an event. Discussions now within Nordisec is the existence of a police force at all at the coming Berget event due to the totally lack of any form of place of a police force in the game.

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GIS
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by GIS » 31 Oct 2019, 13:03

Wy not move the village to were the bank is?

That big open area is perfect and its not in the middle of everything, that way any one going up to the village go there to LARP, and not just for fun.
And have everything in the village, the bank, the police station. Make it a living town. Make a larger burger bar at the village. if blue or red --- SPAM !!! --- up the village the resturang dont serve them any more ;)

Then you can use the village area from now for some larger military objective.
Berget 2-4, Infantry.
Berget 5, Blue, Base commander/Military Police Commander.
Berget 7, Blue, Infantry.
Berget 14, Red, Mech.
Berget 15, Thor Company, Tank Unit.
Berget 16, Nordisec Police.
Berget 17, Nordisec Police.
Berget 18, "Maybe"
Airsoft: 2003- Military: 2004-

Panzergraf
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Re: Feedback - General

Post by Panzergraf » 03 Nov 2019, 04:48

Iprenen wrote:
31 Oct 2019, 10:18
Here is however the other problem: The soft-sim (calling it a MILSIM is just bad because it isn't) doesn't give a f- about the LARP which we saw multiple times during the event. This was the case despite the military fractions had dependencies toward the civilians, meaning that they should've practically protected the civilians at all f-n cost INCLUDING the police!

This created cluster f-s beyond any imagination already on day 2 and it was just a snowballing slope from there. The situation despite our tirelessly effort of turning that tide ended up as the Police becoming target for the WHOLE red team, the military force of the same country as the police? What in the actual f-??

One of the core reasons toward this was the plain and simple: "The initial thoughts of the civilians is that you are a corrupted police force and they will act accordingly." This while the whole (and I mean whole when I say it) village actually was corrupted themself, I mean, come on?

This means that you have a village of 25+ individuals, armed to the teeth with little to no reconsideration if they should pick up arms against the police force of under 20 individuals with the frankly impossible mission of turning their opinion, just look at the real police forces around the world today.
This is not counting in the simple part of the village gangs alliance with the red team which concluded an already WTF situation into a cluster FUBAR^2 situation for us.


Milsim-wise (and I think most players in the higher levels of Red and Blue command chains had a kinda milsim-mindset),
the police should be following orders from Red, because they're serving the same nation.
Obviously that was not the case.
The civilians should have been evacuated out of the game area as soon as the game started.
Obviously that couldn't be done because the civilian players had signed on for the full event.

In pure airsoft gameplay terms it would be easier for red and blue to just slaughter everyone and take positions in the village when needed, but there were rules against that.

Kinda makes you wonder what the point of the civilian and police force faction was...


1. Do not let a local part of the village EVER ally with a military fraction. The second this is done, the civilian fraction is part of a military fraction and off limits for the rest of the civilians.
Then you don't have a roleplay faction - you have a third airsoft faction with worse weapons and fewer players than the other two.
Again, it would be kinda pointless.
2. Create a gamestory that is actually as a goddamn war! There is one country in the whole world today that have the actual military fighting a "warlord" that deals in drugs and that is in Colombia.
I totally agree!
3. Separate the storyline of the locals from the military fraction. Totally. You can't have 2k players having orders of shoot, do not shoot, shoot but only if you hit Mickie Mouse bullshit and then put <100 civilians in the middle of that shitstorm.
But then again you end up with two different games, following two separate sets of rules and two separate storylines.
It would be simpler to just have a small LARP game the week before Berget, and then just not have any civilians at Berget at all.

The whole point of having a civilian LARP faction at an airsoft game is to have it interact with the main military factions, but in my opinion it just ends up feeling kinda forced and tacked on.
When you have to add special rules regarding civilian and military interactions (i.e. that military players can't shoot civilians first), you effectively have two separate sets of rules governing these two groups of players, so in a sense they're playing in two different realities.
GIS wrote:
31 Oct 2019, 13:03
Wy not move the village to were the bank is?

That big open area is perfect and its not in the middle of everything, that way any one going up to the village go there to LARP, and not just for fun.
This is a very good suggestion!
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
B17 - Red Mech

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