Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

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Arradin
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Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Arradin » 10 Nov 2019, 11:56

Hello.

We have made adjustments to the unit requirements of the Militia Engineer and Sapper unit.

We have added the following:
" Players in this unit may not bring Armed/Armored vehicles. We will only allow a small number of "Construction" related vehicles into this team - Get your Vehicle approved by sending pictures and information to info@berget-events.com "

Reason:
The Engineer and sapper unit is NOT ment to be a Juggernaut unit. It's supposed to be a very powerful unit but at the same time very fragile. If used correctly by commanders and protected, it will prove invaluable, but with that Power it also need to be able to be taken out if not defended.
If we allow vehicles into this unit, it would be too easy to dig down around a bunker with a ton of vehicles.

We realise that this may get in the way of some teams ideas and plans, but this is something that was Always intended, we just forgot to initially add it to the unit requirement when releasing the homepage.

Thanks,
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Panzergraf
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Panzergraf » 10 Nov 2019, 18:51

What's to stop one or two members of a team from buying tickets to the Mech unit and bringing an armed and armoured vehicle, and the rest of the team to just get tickets to the sappers, and then in-game riding with their mech friends in their mech-vehicle? :roll:

I realize that would be bending the rule, and I'm not saying it's something my own team is planning, but if it's possible then you can pretty much assume someone is going to do it :wink:
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Switchback » 11 Nov 2019, 04:28

Panzergraf wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 18:51
What's to stop one or two members of a team from buying tickets to the Mech unit and bringing an armed and armoured vehicle, and the rest of the team to just get tickets to the sappers, and then in-game riding with their mech friends in their mech-vehicle? :roll:
To be fair, that's what I'd expect a real military unit to do. Combined arms is a hell of a thing ;)

That said, if you where to do that you'd be doing a better job of synergizing mech and infantry than most berget commanders (mainly up to the plt level, don't have enough experience of higher command elements)
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Arradin
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Arradin » 11 Nov 2019, 09:39

Thats what we want, to be honest.

Commander should appoint mech and inf to protect engineers, and it will be very powerful.
What we DONT want , is the commander being able to just send engineers with their own vehicles to spot A and then juggernaut the area themselves.
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Panzergraf » 13 Nov 2019, 01:15

So in theory it should be possible for my team of, say 8 players (we're still planning), to buy a combination of mech and sapper tickets. So four players (two drivers, two gunners) buy mech tickets and bring the cars, and then the other four buy sapper tickets? In what way would that practically be different than sappers just bringing their own armoured vehicles? 'Cause in this example you're not really talking about a combined force of a mech and sapper platoon, organized independently but working together for the same mission, but a single squad that combines unique mech and sapper abilities.
Yes, technically half the squad would be under mech command while the other half is under sapper command, but it's not like the commanders at Berget have any real authority.

Not saying that's what we're going to do, just pointing out a possible loophole there.

Also, I really really think you're overestimating the "power" of in game vehicles at Berget. Except for maybe the tanks, with your new rules for front armour, vehicles aren't really "juggernaughts" at all. Against a couple of AT4's even the tanks go down easily, it just takes a couple more seconds.

Just my three kronors.
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Verage » 13 Nov 2019, 07:54

Panzergraf wrote:
13 Nov 2019, 01:15
So in theory it should be possible for my team of, say 8 players (we're still planning), to buy a combination of mech and sapper tickets. So four players (two drivers, two gunners) buy mech tickets and bring the cars, and then the other four buy sapper tickets? In what way would that practically be different than sappers just bringing their own armoured vehicles? 'Cause in this example you're not really talking about a combined force of a mech and sapper platoon, organized independently but working together for the same mission, but a single squad that combines unique mech and sapper abilities.
Yes, technically half the squad would be under mech command while the other half is under sapper command, but it's not like the commanders at Berget have any real authority.

Not saying that's what we're going to do, just pointing out a possible loophole there.
Every mission should be put together by HQ. So if you buy sappers tickets, you should be able to move with the sapper unit at all times.
Same with the guys in the mech unit. You can tell your command that, if they need support that your mech guys are ready to give that support to the sappers. But still under Mech command. I have friends in all units, it's always nice to play together but always keep the bigger picture in mind, it would be chaos very fast if everybody just go for it.

Also TF commanders can be set up to make a combined TF with all units (inf, mech, sappers & cobras), but that's up to HQ to decide how they like to operate.

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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by MiqaFox » 13 Nov 2019, 17:40

Not related to the changes, but to the unit.
1. Since all players have to be engineers, does that mean that the unit will not have any medics at all?
2. The unit description says that support weapons are allowed. Does that include sniper rifles, or are those forbidden?
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Arradin » 13 Nov 2019, 17:41

MiqaFox wrote:
13 Nov 2019, 17:40
Not related to the changes, but to the unit.
1. Since all players have to be engineers, does that mean that the unit will not have any medics at all?
2. The unit description says that support weapons are allowed. Does that include sniper rifles, or are those forbidden?
1. They can have one medic per squad
2. No, they can not have sniper rifles
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Arradin
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Re: Changes to Red "Engineer & Sapper " Unit

Post by Arradin » 13 Nov 2019, 17:45

Panzergraf wrote:
13 Nov 2019, 01:15
So in theory it should be possible for my team of, say 8 players (we're still planning), to buy a combination of mech and sapper tickets. So four players (two drivers, two gunners) buy mech tickets and bring the cars, and then the other four buy sapper tickets? In what way would that practically be different than sappers just bringing their own armoured vehicles? 'Cause in this example you're not really talking about a combined force of a mech and sapper platoon, organized independently but working together for the same mission, but a single squad that combines unique mech and sapper abilities.
Yes, technically half the squad would be under mech command while the other half is under sapper command, but it's not like the commanders at Berget have any real authority.

Not saying that's what we're going to do, just pointing out a possible loophole there.

Also, I really really think you're overestimating the "power" of in game vehicles at Berget. Except for maybe the tanks, with your new rules for front armour, vehicles aren't really "juggernaughts" at all. Against a couple of AT4's even the tanks go down easily, it just takes a couple more seconds.

Just my three kronors.
Sure, but that goes for every unit. Rangers cant have vehicles, nothing stops them from booking with a vehicle friend and driving around.
But Sapper unit will get missions as a Group requiring a large number of engineers, so you cant have 10 different Groups of 2 engineers running around.

Building a bunker may take 10 engineers, building a bridge may take 15, etc etc etc Numbers will depend on the Active number of players in the unit.

And no, we do not underestimate the Power of vehicles.
Mech units properly defended are impossible for normal infantry to take out if they dont have bavs.

The main reason for this rule however is something i want to be really clear with. We want people that bring a vehicle to go to Mechanized team. We do NOT want 20 vehicles in engineer unit and 20 vehicles in mech.
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