Berget postponed

Discussions, Suggestions and Questions about upcoming Berget 18, June 2021
Iprenen
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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Iprenen » 16 Jun 2020, 11:58

Well guys, the first line of Corona cases have hit the fan and it is not in the favor of Berget.

https://www.dagensjuridik.se/nyheter/ar ... -pandemin/

It's in swedish but in short, unless there is a term in the contract for the event that handles canceled events, the one with a paid ticket is eligible for a full refund.

Also, a ticketholder do not need to accept a transfer to another date unless it is explicitly mentioned in the terms of agreement.

So...

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Archangel-17
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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Archangel-17 » 16 Jun 2020, 12:43

Iprenen wrote:
16 Jun 2020, 11:58
Well guys, the first line of Corona cases have hit the fan and it is not in the favor of Berget.

https://www.dagensjuridik.se/nyheter/ar ... -pandemin/

It's in swedish but in short, unless there is a term in the contract for the event that handles canceled events, the one with a paid ticket is eligible for a full refund.

Also, a ticketholder do not need to accept a transfer to another date unless it is explicitly mentioned in the terms of agreement.
So I'm kind of on the fence on this one:
Crapgame wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 09:05
Im Fine with moving my ticket to next summer but due to all other things moving to next summer i need to know what dates Berget will be, since midsummer is later next year it would mean that if they do as almost always and place it after midsummer it will be in July. But since i have work related things that are moving i need to know now when to apply for vacay.
I'm all for moving my ticket to next year (2021), but like Crapgame I do need a date (quick if possible) from Berget about next years event. You know, surgery & work related issues.

If we realistically can't expect a date for the 2021 event I would like my money back so I can evaluate once 2021 dates are published if I can go.

Also, Iprenen, I checked both the Berget website and the Portal, nothing is uttered concerning mentioning in terms of agreement.

So Berget, could we get an response A.S.A.P.? I fully understand your position and hardships (but we are all enduring those), but would love an official response, because frankly it has been quite dead on the forums/news section for months and it does not bolster confidence.
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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Tango » 16 Jun 2020, 13:27

Thanks for the info!!

At the end we might finish in the Swedish courts but be aware that they are already preparing an “Berger Event” on those dates to fulfilling their legal requirements... they told me that in an email, so be prepared to arrange everything to join NEXT WEEK event!!! :? :wank:

I’m personally in favor of opening a court case as this is mocking on those who wants to have the option to choose and not to being hold as hostage!

Ps.- Besides that, Berget is for more than 500 people so they have to keep that as is what we paid for...

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Arradin
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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Arradin » 17 Jun 2020, 09:57

So Berget, could we get an response A.S.A.P.? I fully understand your position and hardships (but we are all enduring those), but would love an official response, because frankly it has been quite dead on the forums/news section for months and it does not bolster confidence.
The dates for berget has always been the last week of june, but its way too early to have anything set in stone.

For questions about your tickets or anything else regarding Berget 18 and this situation - please send an email to get official replies.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

Tango
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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Tango » 17 Jun 2020, 10:37

Arradin wrote:
17 Jun 2020, 09:57
So Berget, could we get an response A.S.A.P.? I fully understand your position and hardships (but we are all enduring those), but would love an official response, because frankly it has been quite dead on the forums/news section for months and it does not bolster confidence.
The dates for berget has always been the last week of june, but its way too early to have anything set in stone.

For questions about your tickets or anything else regarding Berget 18 and this situation - please send an email to get official replies.
OFFICIAL standart reply:
Dear xxxx,

You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry on a refund of your
ticket for the postponed event Berget 18.

We have the last couple of weeks been working on a solution that will
hopefully help the few of you that can't attend the proposed new date for
Berget 18 in 2021. We are now looking to hold the event both in 2020 (at the
original date) as well as on the postponed date in 2021.

In this scenario, the event of the original date (June 24th 2020) will
deliver on all promised Berget features, but be downsized to accommodate all
the current governmental restrictions.

This way we will be able to fulfill both our legal obligations while also
giving all players the option to choose if they want to attend the 2020 or
2021 event.

More information and an official post will follow soon, but right now you
have the option to either keep your ticket for the new date of Berget 18 in
2021 or attend the original date for a slightly modified Berget experience
in 2020.

Best regards
__________________________________________________________________________
Berget-Events

BUT I didn't pay for a slightly modified Berget experience neither downsized... and offical answer refers to the forum too :)

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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Iprenen » 20 Jun 2020, 16:27

[quote=Windi^ post_id=79093 time=1592508373 user_id=704]
I received this today:

[quote]Dear --- SPAM !!! ---,

I am sorry that your opinion and our opinion differ in this case.

Our legal experts claim that we are in the right by offering two events as described in the email below on the 8:th of June. European consumer centres (ECC) has also agreed that we are in the right since they have investigated the case. We are at the moment waiting for the Swedish ARN to judge in our specific case.

Best regards
__________________________________________________________________________
Berget-Events Payment Service [/quote]

Anyone got any email on 8th of June? What are these two events they are rambling on? Am I only one that thinks that their communication is ridicilous? And they are just making things worse for themselves?

Is there a possibility to make an group court case in Sweden?
[/quote]

Not a problem to make a court case. The swedish ARN have already made the ruling clear on events that have been cancelled or moved to another date that people are eligable for a refund according to the terms of agreement, i.e. no term: Full refund. Berget have the administrative fee in their terms of agreement and that one is what is to be determined.

This so called event that they are to have next week still need to abide to the 50 individuals rule, what about the other 1531 individuals that aren't allowed to participate?

@Berget: I believe you should fire you attorney for thinking you can dodge your responsibilities toward 1531 paying customers by providing with an event for 50 of them... Together with the current ruling from ARN.

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Arradin
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Re: Berget cancelled

Post by Arradin » 20 Jun 2020, 17:49

Iprenen wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 16:27
Not a problem to make a court case. The swedish ARN have already made the ruling clear on events that have been cancelled or moved to another date that people are eligable for a refund according to the terms of agreement, i.e. no term: Full refund. Berget have the administrative fee in their terms of agreement and that one is what is to be determined.

This so called event that they are to have next week still need to abide to the 50 individuals rule, what about the other 1531 individuals that aren't allowed to participate?

@Berget: I believe you should fire you attorney for thinking you can dodge your responsibilities toward 1531 paying customers by providing with an event for 50 of them... Together with the current ruling from ARN.
This is just filled with inaccurate information, which i will explain. Any further posts with false or missleading information will be removed with no comment.

1) Swedish ARN are yet to make a ruling on this issue, as explained in emails the EU Version of this instance however has, and ruled in our Bergets Favour, since we have offered a modified berget experience still within the scope of what is being sold when you book a ticket.

2) There has never been an issue with "1531 paying customers that arent allowed to participate" . Only a fraction of paying customers have requested as refund, since the overwhelming majority of players understand the seriousness of the onging pandemic and takes it very serious and are very supportive of our decision to postpone the game.

An updated news post about the situation going forward will be coming up on our homepage and here on the forums.

As previously explained, all communication regarding your tickets should be done thru email, its there that you get the most accurate information directly from the heads of Berget Events.

This is a difficult situation for any Company to be in, and we do welcome Critisism and questions. With that said, any discussion on how to take legal action or in any other way attempt to attack Berget Events will not be tolerated.

If you have any specific comments or concerns i will gladly try to get answers for you asap.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Windi^ » 20 Jun 2020, 19:16

@Araddin

Even if I ignore all this crap BE not giving a thought about the players and customers, answer me this:

How would you suggest me, or the majority of people abroad to even come to Sweden. In Finland it's recommended not to travel to Sweden because of your COVID-19 situation being a lot worse then for example here. And no Swede is allowed to Finland. And I'd say same regulation regarding Sweden is in place in many other country also. And I'm not going to go against my own country recommendation, even if you Swedes view your situation not being bad at all. That is not what determines if it's OK to come there or not, it's what we are recommended to do by our own state.
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Arradin
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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Arradin » 20 Jun 2020, 19:32

Windi^ wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 19:16
@Araddin

Even if I ignore all this crap BE not giving a thought about the players and customers, answer me this:

How would you suggest me, or the majority of people abroad to even come to Sweden. In Finland it's recommended not to travel to Sweden because of your COVID-19 situation being a lot worse then for example here. And no Swede is allowed to Finland. And I'd say same regulation regarding Sweden is in place in many other country also. And I'm not going to go against my own country recommendation, even if you Swedes view your situation not being bad at all. That is not what determines if it's OK to come there or not, it's what we are recommended to do by our own state.
Im not sure why you say that Berget Events doesnt care about players and customers in this instance, i know that its your general point of view - but i also know that youre mostly reasonable , and thats why im here to get you answers the best i can. I can promise you that everything is being considered to make as many people as possible happy, and there will be more information coming.

Regarding your question ,it is very simple. Berget Events can not be held responsible for YOUR countrys restrictions and recommendations.

As mentioned earlier, the absolute majority of players think exactly as you, not to risk ones health to travel abroad in this serious situation. The money is not lost, you have the option to come next year if you didnt want to come for the modified berget this year, or you have the option to sell the ticket.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

Tango
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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Tango » 22 Jun 2020, 06:31

Arradin wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 19:32
Windi^ wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 19:16
@Araddin

Even if I ignore all this crap BE not giving a thought about the players and customers, answer me this:

How would you suggest me, or the majority of people abroad to even come to Sweden. In Finland it's recommended not to travel to Sweden because of your COVID-19 situation being a lot worse then for example here. And no Swede is allowed to Finland. And I'd say same regulation regarding Sweden is in place in many other country also. And I'm not going to go against my own country recommendation, even if you Swedes view your situation not being bad at all. That is not what determines if it's OK to come there or not, it's what we are recommended to do by our own state.
Im not sure why you say that Berget Events doesnt care about players and customers in this instance, i know that its your general point of view - but i also know that youre mostly reasonable , and thats why im here to get you answers the best i can. I can promise you that everything is being considered to make as many people as possible happy, and there will be more information coming.

Regarding your question ,it is very simple. Berget Events can not be held responsible for YOUR countrys restrictions and recommendations.

As mentioned earlier, the absolute majority of players think exactly as you, not to risk ones health to travel abroad in this serious situation. The money is not lost, you have the option to come next year if you didnt want to come for the modified berget this year, or you have the option to sell the ticket.
Arradin, I do understand your worries as company but you don’t respect your customers at all and that is quite sad.

As I answered via email, please let me know my right as customer and send me the complain form (or link where to fill it formally), I guess you are obligated by law, right?

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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Switchback » 24 Jun 2020, 07:06

Arradin wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 19:32
Im not sure why you say that Berget Events doesnt care about players and customers in this instance, i know that its your general point of view - but i also know that youre mostly reasonable , and thats why im here to get you answers the best i can. I can promise you that everything is being considered to make as many people as possible happy, and there will be more information coming.
So before I say anything I think its important to say while the rest of the Berget crew has pretty much been radio silent on this matter, Arradin (for the most part) has been responding to this forum thread. While I know that the BE Crew work regular jobs and Berget is more or less a side gig, its important to note that he's at least responding.
Arradin wrote:
20 Jun 2020, 19:32
The money is not lost, you have the option to come next year if you didnt want to come for the modified berget this year, or you have the option to sell the ticket.
That's not entirely true. I know I'm an outlier as I'm flying from the USA but I'm pretty sure it is relevant for the various folk who fly from the UK, Russia, etc. Hotels and Airfare are not always reimbursable/refundable, even during this COVID-19 crazyness.

I'm going to use myself as an example here but Its a similar situation for my teammates who where going to come with me from the USA: We have been able to get "Vouchers" for flying and hotel stays, but these usually have strings attached.
For example:
Flights- my United flight I lost 300$ on non-refundable seat options. That was not given back to me. The same is true for my teammates pre-paid baggage fees that have not been refunded.
Hotel- Again, The travel agency has given me a voucher, however there are some pretty significant strings that make it impossible to use for next Berget. I have to use the voucher at the original booked hotel, before 4/22/2021. This means I will not be able to use this voucher for Berget, and as a result I will loose over $400 in hotel bookings.

Additionally, you have to realize that things come up. People may have been laid off as part of the COVID-19 economic recession that is hitting everyone. They may not be able to fund a trip to Berget next year, so that next-year is going to be useless to them. My teammate is planning on having a child within the next year, and as a result won't be able to come to Berget next year, so he can't go and now has a ticket he can't use.

My point being the money is definitely lost. In total, I lost a total of $700 USD due to the cancelled Berget. I am able to shrug that loss off, but I know for a fact a lot of Berget Attendees would not be able to. I understand that Berget Events can not be held liable for Flight/Hotel policy changes, but they DO have the opportunity to make things easier for their attendees.

On the topic of Communication from Berget Events:
I'm sorry, but this has been grossly mishandled. A few vague forum posts and then radio silence for practically 3 months. Communication has always been a problem with BE, and it really needs to be changed. I got more communication from a Local game with ~300 players that was cancelled (and refunded) than from BE. Telling people "Your one of the few people complaining" is only because your limiting any sort of information flow to email. If this happened in the USA I can say for sure people would accuse BE of running away with the money.

"We will give you more information soon" sounds a lot like "You will take what information we give you, go away" and is not really a good way to communicate. Dates continually get missed by Berget (Team Forum opening, etc)

In the end, I have a few suggestions I HOPE BE will at least look at:
- Instead of offering to extend the tickets to the next berget, issue it as a voucher for ANY berget. That way, if someone can't make it next year, to B18 they can use it at B19, B20, B21, etc.
- Post some more information on the front page of the Berget-Events web page. This "Email for info" policy is really sketchy and really leaves a sour taste in peoples mouths (Basically everything in this thread).
- Take this time to organize better for next year. I understand organizing 1600+ people is like herding unruly sheep, but you have an Extra year. B18 should be the best damn Berget there is just from the sake you have double the time to make it great.

Anyway, I'm getting off my soapbox. Only time will tell how Berget Events handles things, and I really hope it works out. I really enjoy Berget, despite the costs involved.
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Arradin
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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Arradin » 25 Jun 2020, 10:34

Switchback wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 07:06

On the topic of Communication from Berget Events:
I'm sorry, but this has been grossly mishandled. A few vague forum posts and then radio silence for practically 3 months. Communication has always been a problem with BE, and it really needs to be changed. I got more communication from a Local game with ~300 players that was cancelled (and refunded) than from BE. Telling people "Your one of the few people complaining" is only because your limiting any sort of information flow to email. If this happened in the USA I can say for sure people would accuse BE of running away with the money.

"We will give you more information soon" sounds a lot like "You will take what information we give you, go away" and is not really a good way to communicate. Dates continually get missed by Berget (Team Forum opening, etc)

In the end, I have a few suggestions I HOPE BE will at least look at:
- Instead of offering to extend the tickets to the next berget, issue it as a voucher for ANY berget. That way, if someone can't make it next year, to B18 they can use it at B19, B20, B21, etc.
- Post some more information on the front page of the Berget-Events web page. This "Email for info" policy is really sketchy and really leaves a sour taste in peoples mouths (Basically everything in this thread).
- Take this time to organize better for next year. I understand organizing 1600+ people is like herding unruly sheep, but you have an Extra year. B18 should be the best damn Berget there is just from the sake you have double the time to make it great.

Anyway, I'm getting off my soapbox. Only time will tell how Berget Events handles things, and I really hope it works out. I really enjoy Berget, despite the costs involved.
Thank you for a very constructive post. as always, i am forwarding all feedback to the owners.
Some comments:

1) I don´t agree that the information has been vague whatsoever. Quite the opposit, a very clear news/forum post was made rather quickly about berget being postponed and that no refunds would be given as per the player agreements. Just because you dont AGREE with it and want to discuss it further does not mean that its vague. In what way could we further make the situation any more clear? We made the decision very early to minimize the costs for us and attendees alike.

Berget have NEVER used the forums as any sort of main communication between BE and induvidual players, it has only been used for discussions and general information to the broad playerbase. We have always used e-mail for specific direct questions and concerns.

2) " - Instead of offering to extend the tickets to the next berget, issue it as a voucher for ANY berget. That way, if someone can't make it next year, to B18 they can use it at B19, B20, B21, etc. "
This is no problem whatsoever. If you cannot attend next year, we can continue to hold the ticket for you under these circumstances. Contact payment email for this when it becomes relevant for you.

3) There will be a news update, i cant say when because i simply dont know. But the news will be related to how things will work moving forward to Berget 18 , 2021. No further news will be made regarding 2020 as its already quite clear, and any specific questions or concerns or complaint should be directed straight to the owners ( whom are the only ones answering emails )

Also want to state a simple fact that a majority of players are returning players. Ofcourse we want to make sure that players are happy, anything else would be silly.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Iprenen » 26 Jun 2020, 10:04

Arradin wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 10:34

Thank you for a very constructive post. as always, i am forwarding all feedback to the owners.
Some comments:

1) I don´t agree that the information has been vague whatsoever. Quite the opposit, a very clear news/forum post was made rather quickly about berget being postponed and that no refunds would be given as per the player agreements. Just because you dont AGREE with it and want to discuss it further does not mean that its vague. In what way could we further make the situation any more clear? We made the decision very early to minimize the costs for us and attendees alike.
A question: How is it according to players agreement when you have point 1.4 in the terms of agreement regarding canceled events? And please don't say that the event haven't been canceled, it has for everyone not able to attend this 50 individual event.

"1.4
Berget-Events do not give refunds on tickets. If you due to unforeseen circumstances cannot attend the event, all sales will be done by the owner of the ticket. Should a Berget event be cancelled all ticket holders will be refunded after a preparation fee have been deducted. Therefore the fee can be slightly lower than the initial price."

https://berget-events.com/tickets

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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Arradin » 26 Jun 2020, 10:19

Iprenen wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 10:04
Arradin wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 10:34

Thank you for a very constructive post. as always, i am forwarding all feedback to the owners.
Some comments:

1) I don´t agree that the information has been vague whatsoever. Quite the opposit, a very clear news/forum post was made rather quickly about berget being postponed and that no refunds would be given as per the player agreements. Just because you dont AGREE with it and want to discuss it further does not mean that its vague. In what way could we further make the situation any more clear? We made the decision very early to minimize the costs for us and attendees alike.
A question: How is it according to players agreement when you have point 1.4 in the terms of agreement regarding canceled events? And please don't say that the event haven't been canceled, it has for everyone not able to attend this 50 individual event.

"1.4
Berget-Events do not give refunds on tickets. If you due to unforeseen circumstances cannot attend the event, all sales will be done by the owner of the ticket. Should a Berget event be cancelled all ticket holders will be refunded after a preparation fee have been deducted. Therefore the fee can be slightly lower than the initial price."

https://berget-events.com/tickets
Berget 18 is not cancelled, its postponed.
Please send ticket & payment questions to:

payment@berget-events.com

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Re: Berget postponed

Post by Tango » 26 Jun 2020, 11:09

Arradin wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 10:19
Iprenen wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 10:04
Arradin wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 10:34

Thank you for a very constructive post. as always, i am forwarding all feedback to the owners.
Some comments:

1) I don´t agree that the information has been vague whatsoever. Quite the opposit, a very clear news/forum post was made rather quickly about berget being postponed and that no refunds would be given as per the player agreements. Just because you dont AGREE with it and want to discuss it further does not mean that its vague. In what way could we further make the situation any more clear? We made the decision very early to minimize the costs for us and attendees alike.
A question: How is it according to players agreement when you have point 1.4 in the terms of agreement regarding canceled events? And please don't say that the event haven't been canceled, it has for everyone not able to attend this 50 individual event.

"1.4
Berget-Events do not give refunds on tickets. If you due to unforeseen circumstances cannot attend the event, all sales will be done by the owner of the ticket. Should a Berget event be cancelled all ticket holders will be refunded after a preparation fee have been deducted. Therefore the fee can be slightly lower than the initial price."

https://berget-events.com/tickets
Berget 18 is not cancelled, its postponed.
Arradin, then which is the name of the event for 50 person the owners prepared now? Berget 17.5 (seventeen and a half?) :)

That is a legal trick and an open semantic discussion, and as you can read some opinions differs.

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